Regarding ECF Safety Specification For Metal Tube Mods

[rolygate]

ive seen you post that the only metal tube mods that have ever exploded (to your knowledge) were ones with stacked cells. i hope this will be taken into account when you do your reviews.

We are not going to do any reviews or any regulations. We don't do that. I think you may have been confused by the hysterical reaction in this thread to the news that in three months time we will start to tell members and visitors that buying a sealed metal tube mod may not be a good idea.

i (as they say) have no skin in the game, and i think safety features are important. what im not a fan of is someone or some organization, or government etc. going off half cocked implamenting all kinds of regulations without thinking them out. i also believe this is beyond the scope of one man. this needs to be done by a group. both those that build the mods and people such as yourself.

Well, I am an anti-regulation type of person. I believe the market decides well enough in most cases. Warnings will do the job as far as I can see - they did, for batteries.

As regards the group idea - sure. But as long as they decide this week because we're not hanging around. We waited years for this to be fixed and now we are at the cliff edge. Situation normal for the e-cigarette industry.

[rolygate]

Believe me, from an engineering point of view ground wires for every ckt in a car has little to do with cost, it's all about space and weight.

You mean, if the weight and space wasn't a problem, you wouldn't use the chassis as ground, and you'd use insulated returns?

Exactly as I said, then

[Rocketman]

The thought that a box mod won't blow up in the user's face seems logical. The lid will pop, vent through the gap between the lid and box but not blow the atty end into the user's face (except those with hot glue holding the connector). The low pressure release is what saves the user. Egos pop the end cap and cell guts but usually stay connected to the USB cable when they blow on charge and the end cap is on pretty tight. I think the relief pressure of the bottom cap/plug is just as important as where and how many vents there are.

[Rocketman]

Your sleeve idea IS AN INSULATED RETURN. If you are on the inside with the cells.
Most mods don't use carbon steel chassis or get exposed to road salt.
An aluminum mod shell has less chance of overheating and melting insulation from a short than a small wire.

The insulated positive sense strip running down the side of a protected Li-ion (a flat wire) only carries the power to run the protection circuit but is a primary mode of failure in a metal mod using protected cells. The internal sleeve is a must.
Maybe an external cable tray would work

[rolygate]

I think your idea of small vents not being enough and that a blowout plug alone won't be failsafe is correct but I think a small set of vents, and a large low pressure plug would both give the user a warning and release massive amounts of gas and cell guts without becoming a rocket. Ejecting the cells under a relatively low pressure should greatly reduce the potential for injury.

This is interesting.

It's the sort of thing that needs some testing to get right, I imagine. But I can see it would work.

But can it survive Butte City Pipemods building it right even though they only have a drill press and they want to cut corners? Remember, they don't agree with being told what to do and will save 3 cents anywhere if they can.

Also, does it need any skill to build it right? They don't have any.

And: can the buyer look at it immediately and figure out if it complies?

[Rocketman]

Some testing, soon, is necessary. The first commercial mod maker to publish a relief pressure test gets the prize.
Some could probably be sent back to Home Depot for testing

Just static pressure testing would help us gain some knowledge.

People spend time and money making cell discharge graphs.
Mod tubes obviously cost more but a comparison chart of major relief pressure would not be anymore damning than the discharge graphs we all ignore.

[markfm]

Minor divert, but related. What is the venting like on a darwin? Not a tube, but also not a classic box where people replace batteries daily.

[Rocketman]

Minor divert, but related. What is the venting like on a darwin? Not a tube, but also not a classic box where people replace batteries daily.

Best answered by someone with a Darwin, but the atty won't blow out the top, the batteries (parallel 3.7 flat packs) are at the bottom. Long linear separation line.

But a key point is the user doesn't get to select or PLAY WITH the batteries.
There are some high quality Li-ion "tabbed" cells out there. Protection circuits are available. Replacing a bad cell won't be as easy as removable cells, but eliminating one guaranteed failure mode (user error) would improve safety.
I vape a metal tube mod with an IMR cell and a protection board and a 30mm bottom plug with a 7mm vent. The plug takes about 10 lbs to pull it out. Insulated sleeve, and a wire from the protection board to the front.


Maybe non-replaceable cells deserve a mention.

[cbrociuos]

as for the internal sleeve: wouldnt this block the slots on the tube. i would guess this would insulate the heat and the initial out gassing (the users first warning something really bad is about to happen). the secondary out gassing would melt the sleeve sending molten plastic and super heated gasses into the users hand. isnt the idea to get a warning during the initial out gassing? or maybe im missunderstanding the sleeve concept. i also dont see how using the tube body as a groung is a bad thing. im not trying to stir the pot, im just wanting to understand the logic of some of this. sorry if im coming off as being argumentative.

[markfm]

At the point where a vendor is purposefully engaged in product substitution all bets are off. Show design A, claim to sell design A, actually make design B, is a dishonest act.