M401 atomizer disassembled - pics

[JeffieFreedom]

And the reply from Intellicig:

Hi Jeffrey

Unfortunately I do not have access to that kind of information.


Best wishes.

Martin Johnson
Customer Service
Intellicig & CN Creative Ltd

[Scottbee]

I'm not sure what kind of basic knowledge of heat transfer you think you have but you need to know the properties of the material you are talking about before in order to use information about heat transfer. Do you have any information about the properties of the materials? Do you actually have any information about heat transfer within the device?

If you're an engineer then feel free to speak more specifically. If your not....

I guess I'm free to speak freely. Not only am I an engineer, I taught Heat and Mass Transfer and Fluid Dynamics in the Big Ten. And I have more than a passing knowledge of the materials used in atomizers (the 510 specifically) and at what approximate temperatures they traditionally run.

Shall we start there?

[sunsetnkc]

Scott, please do, I am sure there are a lot of us that want to know.

[Angelz]

I guess I'm free to speak freely. Not only am I an engineer, I taught Heat and Mass Transfer and Fluid Dynamics in the Big Ten. And I have more than a passing knowledge of the materials used in atomizers (the 510 specifically) and at what approximate temperatures they traditionally run.

Shall we start there?

....

[JeffieFreedom]

Scott, perfect.

I hope as a professional you can appreciate why I wouldn't want to entertain a discussion about 'heat transfer' from somebody who was simply throwing around a term they had heard.

I have the Intellicig Evo which I believe is based on a 401 design. There is an arch wire mesh under which quite visibly sits a white arch which has been confirmed as "plastic" by the aforementioned representative from Intellicig. Mr Johnson was unable to tell me what type of plastic it is, so I assume there's not a lot more that can be done with that information. Although, personally I feel his unwillingness to get that information is dodgy to say the least.

I think these devices certainly have the potential to be safe but I question whether the appropriate resources and knowledge have gone into making them so.

If you have specific information about the 510 please describe what you know about the materials used and temperatures they experience. This information should be publicly available anyway, so you would be doing the community of people use these things a service.

In looking at the picture of the 401 which were posted earlier in this thread (which I will note look significantly different than the atomizer used in the Intellicig Evo) my main concerns would be the release of carcinogens or other toxins from the material which encases the wires preceding the coil, and the release of same from the semi-translucent cylinder upon which the porcelain coil housing sits, and release of same from the solder and coil itself, especially through the process of erosion into e-liquid if they are exposed to moisture as you have suggested. Note that in the posted pictures it appears that the semi-translucent is discolored and appears to have either undergone chemical transformation itself or has been exposed to a residue from the breakdown of another material within the device. Could you also name the material used for the wire mesh?

So if you have specific knowledge about the 401, please share that as well.

[Ez Duzit]

Scott, perfect.

I hope as a professional you can appreciate why I wouldn't want to entertain a discussion about 'heat transfer' from somebody who was simply throwing around a term they had heard.

I have the Intellicig Evo which I believe is based on a 401 design. There is an arch wire mesh under which quite visibly sits a white arch which has been confirmed as "plastic" by the aforementioned representative from Intellicig. Mr Johnson was unable to tell me what type of plastic it is, so I assume there's not a lot more that can be done with that information. Although, personally I feel his unwillingness to get that information is dodgy to say the least.

I think these devices certainly have the potential to be safe but I question whether the appropriate resources and knowledge have gone into making them so.

If you have specific information about the 510 please describe what you know about the materials used and temperatures they experience. This information should be publicly available anyway, so you would be doing the community of people use these things a service.

In looking at the picture of the 401 which were posted earlier in this thread (which I will note look significantly different than the atomizer used in the Intellicig Evo) my main concerns would be the release of carcinogens or other toxins from the material which encases the wires preceding the coil, and the release of same from the semi-translucent cylinder upon which the porcelain coil housing sits, and release of same from the solder and coil itself, especially through the process of erosion into e-liquid if they are exposed to moisture as you have suggested. Note that in the posted pictures it appears that the semi-translucent is discolored and appears to have either undergone chemical transformation itself or has been exposed to a residue from the breakdown of another material within the device. Could you also name the material used for the wire mesh?

OMG. Do you work for the FDA?

[JeffieFreedom]

Ez Duzit, you bring up a good point actually.

Obviously, if I worked for the FDA I wouldn't be using a message board as a source of data. But the FDA do have access to a tremendous amount of scientific resources. There is good reason to believe that the tobacco companies, and more importantly the pharmaceutical industry, have an interest in keeping e-cigarettes from market. Both of these groups probably influence on the FDA, Health Canada and other national health agencies, either directly, or by funding studies which produce the kind of data they are looking for.

If I can think of this stuff myself, you'd better believe that scientists hired to find a problem with these devices will think of it too. If legislation is passed to ban e-cigarettes based on their findings, it won't matter whether the companies who produce them correct the problem, overturning that legislation will become a very costly and lengthy process, and the relatively small amount of money that companies have made from e-cigarettes, may not be enough to surmount it.

[Shining Wit]

Hi, I have been passed an enquiry from a customer that I believe was not answered 100% accurately.
Our representative from customer services is still learning the business and was trying to be as helpful
as possible. Unfortunately we had numerous meetings last week and the people who could have
provided the most accurate answer were unavailable.
With regard to the white material beneath the mesh bridge on our vaporiser, it is made from a ceramic
material and NOT plastic, even though there are various plastics with suitable thermodynamic
properties. As you might be aware, ceramic materials are widely used in high temperature applications
such ceramic hobs on cookers, disc brakes on F1 cars, thermocouplings etc etc. The material is ideally
suited to this type of situation and is considered safe as there is no known break down under the kind
of temperature reached in our product. Inside the vaporiser is a nichrome wire coil wrapped around a
fibre glass core; this conducts the required heat to vaporise the liquid. Although the core or rod might
appear to be ceramic to the untrained eye, it is definitely fibreglass which can be heated to 1200
Degrees Centigrade before crystallisation occurs and up to 1700C before degradation occurs.
Both the nichrome and the fibre glass are accepted safe materials to use in such an application.
To clarify one other point, there is a basic scientific difference between
'vaporise' and 'atomise'. To vaporise is to change the physical property of
a liquid from a solid state into a gaseous one using the principle of evaporation.
To atomise is to break down a liquid into minute particles, as in a perfume
spray for example, without the use of evaporation.
Atomised liquid would not be a very pleasant substance to inhale as it
would still be in liquid form and could cause a nasty taste and quite possibly
respiratory problems.
I hope that this answers the query and reassures users that we do take great care in our products.

Best wishes.

John Chamley
Business Development
Intellicig & CN Creative Ltd

[Angela]

Thanks for clearing that up .... I knew there was likely to be some mis-information in there somewhere

[Ez Duzit]

Hi, I have been passed an enquiry from a customer that I believe was not answered 100% accurately.
Our representative from customer services is still learning the business and was trying to be as helpful
as possible. Unfortunately we had numerous meetings last week and the people who could have
provided the most accurate answer were unavailable.
With regard to the white material beneath the mesh bridge on our vaporiser, it is made from a ceramic
material and NOT plastic, even though there are various plastics with suitable thermodynamic
properties. As you might be aware, ceramic materials are widely used in high temperature applications
such ceramic hobs on cookers, disc brakes on F1 cars, thermocouplings etc etc. The material is ideally
suited to this type of situation and is considered safe as there is no known break down under the kind
of temperature reached in our product. Inside the vaporiser is a nichrome wire coil wrapped around a
fibre glass core; this conducts the required heat to vaporise the liquid. Although the core or rod might
appear to be ceramic to the untrained eye, it is definitely fibreglass which can be heated to 1200
Degrees Centigrade before crystallisation occurs and up to 1700C before degradation occurs.
Both the nichrome and the fibre glass are accepted safe materials to use in such an application.
To clarify one other point, there is a basic scientific difference between
'vaporise' and 'atomise'. To vaporise is to change the physical property of
a liquid from a solid state into a gaseous one using the principle of evaporation.
To atomise is to break down a liquid into minute particles, as in a perfume
spray for example, without the use of evaporation.
Atomised liquid would not be a very pleasant substance to inhale as it
would still be in liquid form and could cause a nasty taste and quite possibly
respiratory problems.
I hope that this answers the query and reassures users that we do take great care in our products.

Best wishes.

John Chamley
Business Development
Intellicig & CN Creative Ltd

Wow that's a mouthful. Thanks for some great information, and also for putting this to rest.