Thanks to all who contribute helpful information on standard life and operations on components. I for one would wonder how things work but may not have known where to go exactly for the information I was seeking.
Thanks again...
magnus...your post is straight to the point as as informative....for me anyways.
i vote we make it a sticky
weird thing is there is not much argument about atomizer cleaning and maintenance...yet when it comes to battery charging and maintenance...well
Last edited by asidrave; 03-16-2009 at 08:12 PM.
2x Provari's both with ZAPs, Joye eVic with Vivi Nova. RETIRED RSM Mk4VV and VV Monkeyboxx.....
CAUTION: Im vaping @ VV...Keep back 500ft :p
Originally Posted by Magnus
no doubt your heart was in the right place Magnus.
it's just the nature of the beast and all the different user experiences here.
the battery university website has been posted several times in the past. i like the info, but it falls short in answering charger/battery specific questions.
does every battery/charger combo quit charging after the light goes green? is it really fully charged? i don't know.
i've heard:
ignore the green light, charge as per manufacturer's recommendations.
ignore the manufacturer's recommendation, it's from older technology.
don't let them on the charger for prolonged periods of time.
it's okay to let them sit in the charger indefinitely.
it shuts off completely, no trickle charge.
take them off because the trickle charge will destroy them.
it's okay to let them sit in a charger that's on a timer and/or powerstrip.
don't let them sit in a charger without power as the charger will drain the battery.
it's all very confusing.
did the battery die because of the way i charged it or was it just a bad battery to begin with?
i think it's silly that there are so many different recommended ways to charge them if they're all basically the same thing and i really wish i knew one tried and true method, but i don't.
until i do, i just follow the manufacturer's recommended method.
(safe than sorry)
magnus...your post is straight to the point as as informative....for me anyways.
i vote we make it a sticky
weird thing is there is not much argument about atomizer cleaning and maintenance...yet when it comes to battery charging and maintenance...well
Second the vote for making this a sticky..
Thanks for the positive feedback and the sticky votes guys, I'm glad you found the information useful.
I know what you mean CandyGirl, but this information negates the whole battery specific / charger specific problem. ALL original e-cig batteries are 3.6-3.7 V Lithium Ion cells which ALL perform in the same way.
The only differences between various batteries are the milli-amp hour (mAh) ratings, which refer to the capacity of the battery, or how long it will last before needing a recharge. The bigger batteries last longer, in essence.
If there are differences with the performance of various chargers then this is not related to the battery cell itself but probably to do with the variety in manufacturing standards of all the different chargers. So we can finally ignore the seemingly random time it takes for our various chargers to turn red to green and just be happy knowing that ALL 3.6-3.7V Li-Ion battery cells require a charge of around 3 hours to fully recharge the cell.
Also, leaving them in the charger will not damage a normal battery. However, since it is of no benefit whatesoever, since NO Li-Ion cells or chargers trickle charge, there is really no need and it is probably better to take them out immediately after the standard 3 to 4 hour charge, to avoid any risk of over-heating or fire.
Likewise, we can also be sure that there is NO memory effect, and in fact the best way to keep the batteries healthy is to charge them often. It is better for the battery to be charged when only partially used then to allow a full discharge cycle. This wears the life of the battery down more quickly.
The only overall problem is that all Li-Ion batteries will eventually suffer with age. Most will happily charge and discharge over 300 times before they start to deteriorate, and this equates to about 10 months of life with a charge every single day! So charge em up and recharge them as soon as they are getting weak - long before your e-cig flashes at you if you want. This will keep the battery healthier and youe e-cig vaping stronger!
I quote again from the good doctor! -
"Avoid frequent full discharges because this puts additional strain on the battery. Several partial discharges with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one deep one. Recharging a partially charged lithium-ion does not cause harm because there is no memory. (In this respect, lithium-ion differs from nickel-based batteries.) Short battery life is mainly cause by heat rather than charge / discharge patterns."
All this information is there in the site, and much more, and it really is an authoritative and reliable source. These folks are not commercially driven, they do not even manufacture the baterries themselves and they do not sell or supply batteries either. They are pure researchers in the battery field, with over 20 years of experience in all kinds of rechargeable batteries, and manufacturers of chargers. I honestly trust this as the scientific truth about Li-Ion cells, far more than the often badly worded and confusing manufacturers guidelines which clearly refer to old style nickel based batteries.
Hope this clears the air...
Interesting stuff. One thing I've noticed is the occasional recommendation to buy off the shelf unprotected rechargeables for use in modded PVs. If we're making the thread sticky a mention that not all batteries are protected might be an idea.
On the subject of red/green charging lights, does anyone have a power meter sensitive enough to see if the charger really does automatically shut off when the light turns green? One of those Kill-a-Watt units, perhaps?
I've tried that. The Kill-A-Watt is not sensitive enough to even register the thing when it's definitely charging, so obviously it's not of much help when the green light comes on.
My clamp on meter would be better suited for the job, and since this just requires cutting apart the power zip code I guess I could start there. However at 120VAC there isn't going to be much current at _all_ and these inductance meters are finicky anyway just based on how you're holding it.
The only way I see to get a _decent_ reading is to dismantle the charger and put an ammeter inline on the DC side. I'm not yet willing to sacrifice my charger just for the sake of settling this. Although I do have a spare charger coming from TW, so I may go ahead and do it once it arrives.
You see _this_ is why I posted what I did earlier. I was asking in a roundabout way if anyone has actually DONE this stuff before. I'm sure someone has?? It's not like it takes specialized equipment. But to say things like "It doesn't charge after the green light comes on. I've never done any tests though, I just know" isn't helpful.
This thread had me curious and I believe there was no mention of it so I put a nice digital voltmeter to the plugged in charger and it was putting out 114ma with the green light on. So unless the processor chip in the battery is running the charger (I doubt this) or cutting off charge at the chip then the battery is seeing power.
I have a lithium thermal charger for small radio controlled planes that I could do some testing on. I'll have to look into getting some test subjects since I am new and what little gear I have is heavily relied on.
Has anyone seen other theads about testing these batteries yet. Of course this is about when I remember to use the search function...
Lorddrek
Lorddrek: Thanks for taking a few minutes to do some tests. Exactly where were you seeing the 114ma though?
I'm running a small test of my own right now too. Thought I would take a slightly different approach here.... anyway will let you all know the results in a couple hours.
Just want to ephasize here that I'm not disputing the fact that some Li ion chargers in general completely cut off the voltage. That's not the point though. What we are trying to find out if these Chinese ecig chargers do so.
I noticed with a 600ma in my R/C plane was it had extra voltage at first then leveled off fairly quickly providing even power until power dropped off real quick. I do remember fully discharging a lithium battery can kill it. I wouldn't go too long without charging for fear of a sensitive switch draining the battery further.asidave, from your experience with batteries in general, should the ouput (effectiveness) of our e-cig batteries be the same for the first 30 minutes after being fully charged as the last 30 minutes before they need to be recharged? Or as they are depleted to say 30% are they less effective?
The back of my charger has a 100ma output on the label and my test showed 114ma then I believe a 200ma battery would only need 2 hours or less? I will have to time my next charge to see how long the light is on. These batteries could last a long time once the proper charge time is determined.If there are differences with the performance of various chargers then this is not related to the battery cell itself but probably to do with the variety in manufacturing standards of all the different chargers. So we can finally ignore the seemingly random time it takes for our various chargers to turn red to green and just be happy knowing that ALL 3.6-3.7V Li-Ion battery cells require a charge of around 3 hours to fully recharge the cell.
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