The ABCs of batteries

[stormynights]

I am so confused!

[LuckySevens4U]

Originally Posted by stormynights

I am so confused!

I supposed I don't quite understand all the technical stuff either, and it is confusing; however, that said, IMO isn't it best to be safe than sorry and use at least the safest way, which is PROTECTED batteries and devices that have an on/off switch?

[MoonMan]

Protected, unprotected - I just smear explosive battery gel on myself and get it over with.

[LuckySevens4U]

Originally Posted by MoonMan

Protected, unprotected - I just smear explosive battery gel on myself and get it over with.

LOLOLOL So are any suppliers that sell devices with unprotected batteries selling tubes of that to add to our orders?

[mogur]

Originally Posted by Cellmeister

Sorry But This Is Wrong: Maybe Thats Why No One Asked You.

Start Quote:
"Also, don't charge until the green light comes on and then give it few more hours, like I have heard repeated so often. That is a myth leftover from the days of NiCds and NiMHs that have a 'memory effect'. Lithium ions have no such memory effect. None. Nada. They don't need to be 'topped off' like NiMHs, nor frequently discharge cycled like NiCds. They do like a moderate discharge to 3 volts or so every 100 charges to recalibrate the electronic surveillence circuit that monitors its charge status." End Quote

If You Don't Know What Your Posting

Start Quote: "I am certainly no expert, and have learned a considerable portion of what I know about batteries in just the last few weeks" End Quote

You Should Not Post It Here, You Are Causing Confusion To The Readers With Non-Facts...

RIGHT WAY On How To Charge Your Devices Battery: Always Follow The Manufacturers Battery Charging & Use Procedures. PERIOD!

For Proper Battery Information & Other Battery Information Please Use Wiki or Any Other Legitimate Site.

Wow, I thought this was supposed to be fun. I agree with you whole-heartedly, Cellmeister. Where did I say to not follow the manufacturers battery charging and use procedures? I back you 100% on that. If you reread my post, I was saying to not follow myths. Overcharging is very dangerous on lithium ion cells. Even on sophisticated chargers, the manufacturers don't recommend leaving li-ion in the charger after the charge cycle is complete. If noobs listen to that four hours after the light turns green crap, needless risk is taken.

-The time at which the battery stays at 4.20/cell should be as short as possible. Prolonged high voltage promotes corrosion, especially at elevated temperatures. Spinel is less sensitive to high voltage.

-3.92V/cell is the best upper voltage threshold for cobalt-based lithium-ion. Charging batteries to this voltage level has been shown to double cycle life. Lithium-ion systems for defense applications make use of the lower voltage threshold. The negative is a much lower capacity.

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-5A.htm

Top-Off Conditioning Mode (NiCd Packs Only) automatically conditions the 18-volt NiCd battery cells to extend their run-time and life. Milwaukee Li-ion batteries do not need Top-Off conditioning due to their built-in Performance Optimizing Circuit which constantly maintains cell balance.

http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-48-59-2818-18-Volt-28-Volt-Lithium-Ion/dp/B000JD0F3K

From the Mini Cigarette User’s Manual-

Directions for the use of battery components and charger
In case the indicator light flashes , recharge the battery components with the accompanying charger. Please screw in the battery components into the charger. Two or three hours later, the battery components is fully charged when the indicator light turns green from red. Take out the battery components and cut off the charger’s power supply.

[mogur]

Ahhh… found an earlier post by you, Cellmeister. Now I understand. You’re not defending the manufacturer’s directions; you’re defending your own.

U Did Not Say How Long U Charged It For. Leave It In The Charger for (4) Full Hours.

If It Does Not Work After That "Fling It" Several Times, Possible Juice In The Switch. Plenty Threads On Stuck Switches. Verify Its That Battery, Verify Your Charger Works With Another Battery (Green LED Does Not Mean Its Completely Charged, Only Up To Voltage, Has To Stay On The Charger A Few Hours), Try another Atom.

In that case, I do not agree with you. I recommend following the manufacturers suggestions. Let me explain how lithium ion chargers work. First, they charge at constant current until they sense the current fall off. Then they switch to a constant voltage mode and monitor that voltage until the cell reaches that voltage. At this point the cell has about an 80% charge, and the charging voltage masks the cell voltage, so the micro switches off the charger and senses the battery voltage via A/D converter. It then switches the charger back on and repeats this cycle every 20 seconds or so (depending on manufacturer), until the cell voltage reaches 4.2 volts. A few manufacturers vary this scenario, and instead use a shunt resistor to indirectly measure current via the voltage dropped by the shunt. Fairly uncommon, because the shunt is an extremely precision, low resistance, high wattage resistor and increases the manufacturing cost. In that event, the charging voltage is always constant and the topping charge occurs either when the charge timer expires, or the current falls below 10% of the current limit. The light doesn’t turn green on first voltage attainment, it only turns green after the cell is fully charged. Leaving the cell in the charger after that normally isn’t harmful, but why risk additional chance of over-charging? My suggestion is to follow manufacturers instructions to the letter, and not listen to clowns like me and you on a modders forum.

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm

http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/MAX1737.pdf




From App Note 40 “Lithium Ion battery charging using bipolar transistors” ZETEX semiconductors-

Recharge/top up charge
Li-Ion batteries are unable to absorb continuous over charge and therefore continuous trickle charge to fully charged battery is not recommended.

{Emphasis theirs}

http://www.diodes.com/_files/products_appnote_pdfs/zetex/an40.pdf

[firhill]

Originally Posted by mogur

My suggestion is to follow manufacturers instructions to the letter, and not listen to clowns like me and you on a modders forum.

Hey, I resemble that remark!!!!

Keep posting these great and informative posts, Mogur.

Thanks for doing so.

Jack

[crazyhorse]

I wish someone would explain me why the DSE-801 user's manual specifies the batteries must remain on the charger for 8 hours prior to initial use. The exact Chinglish instruction says: "The first charging must be kept for 8 hours".

I noticed the light turns green quite quickly when initially charging newly delivered batteries.

[mogur]

Originally Posted by crazyhorse

I wish someone would explain me why the DSE-801 user's manual specifies the batteries must remain on the charger for 8 hours prior to initial use. The exact Chinglish instruction says: "The first charging must be kept for 8 hours".

I noticed the light turns green quite quickly when initially charging newly delivered batteries.

New cells come with a half-charge because at full charge their charging cycle life is reduced, and at low charges, self discharging could possibly over discharge the cell.
The high-power lithium-ion (scroll towards the bottom of the page)

Do what your manual says. I do not have an 801, and can't examine what type of charger circuit they use. It's possible that they do only bring the battery to first voltage attainment, like Cellmeister says, and fire off the green led then, and trickle charge with no supervision from that point. That would be a ridiculous situation, but hey, I'm only only guessing at this point. Do what the people who designed it say.

[Cellmeister]

Originally Posted by mogur

Ahhh… found an earlier post by you, Cellmeister. Now I understand. You’re not defending the manufacturer’s directions; you’re defending your own. In that case, I do not agree with you. I recommend following the manufacturers suggestions. Let me explain how lithium ion chargers work. First, they charge at constant current until they sense the current fall off. Then they switch to a constant voltage mode and monitor that voltage until the cell reaches that voltage. At this point the cell has about an 80% charge, and the charging voltage masks the cell voltage, so the micro switches off the charger and senses the battery voltage via A/D converter. It then switches the charger back on and repeats this cycle every 20 seconds or so (depending on manufacturer), until the cell voltage reaches 4.2 volts. A few manufacturers vary this scenario, and instead use a shunt resistor to indirectly measure current via the voltage dropped by the shunt. Fairly uncommon, because the shunt is an extremely precision, low resistance, high wattage resistor and increases the manufacturing cost. In that event, the charging voltage is always constant and the topping charge occurs either when the charge timer expires, or the current falls below 10% of the current limit. The light doesn’t turn green on first voltage attainment, it only turns green after the cell is fully charged. Leaving the cell in the charger after that normally isn’t harmful, but why risk additional chance of over-charging? My suggestion is to follow manufacturers instructions to the letter, and not listen to clowns like me and you on a modders forum.
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm
http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/MAX1737.pdf

From App Note 40 “Lithium Ion battery charging using bipolar transistors” ZETEX semiconductors-

{Emphasis theirs}http://www.diodes.com/_files/products_appnote_pdfs/zetex/an40.pdf

I Really Don't Give A Flying Fluck. Your Wrong & You Can See The New Post's Coming Up Already With Battery Charging Confusion.

If You Know So Much You Would Have Known That Every Battery / Device Manufacturer & Engineer Has Their Specific Instructions For Their Batts, But Thats Why You Lost Out In The Business.

Back To The Books For You.

Now You Can See You Just Started Confusion & Questions, Hope You Answer To What You Started. I Tried Saving Your Butt Yesterday Trying To Get The Thread Deleted, But They Decided To Let You Punish Yourself.

You Might Have A Few Hours Left To Delete The Post (You Have 24 Hours To Edit or Delete The Post If You Don't Know That, The Clock Is Ticking...) & Save Face, But Thats Up To You.

I am Not Trying To Bust Your Nuts, I Have Nothing Against You & Mean No Disrespect To You. So Take It As You Please.

So You Posted In The Modders Forum, Where Are Your Mods?

Anyone Who Has An E-Cig Will Know Your Wrong & Clueless.....

All The Real Lithium Battery Info Is Written By Real Experts Lithium-ion battery
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

~Keep Vapin~!