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  1. RayofLight62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baditude
    And who made you a mod battery expert? What percentage of mod batteries used today are NiMH? Only a fraction if any.

    Our ECF forum manager Rolygate is a reknown battery expert and wrote this blog about mod batteries and battery safety. RECHARGEABLE BATTERIES

    He states that IMR batteries are indeed the safest batteries for mod usage. I took much of the information for my blog from his data and from other sources listed as references at the bottom of the page. No where have I read that NiMH batteries are the safest. Regardless of this, NiMH batteries are a non-factor for the general vaping community. But thanks for your opinion.
    I was conducting a research about the max amp of some cells, and Google for some reasons directed me to this post.
    By reading it, it almost pulled the ink off my pen (well, not literally) and provide a reply.
    Other than a vaper, I believe to know a thing or two about batteries. I did my stuff a lifetime ago into another world (the flashlights community) at the onset of lithium technology; in another virtual space, in year 2003-2004 we developed the first protected rechargeable Li-Ion 123 (the entire operation went bust since the FarEast manufacturer started selling the thing on its own).
    The first Li-Ions using lithium cobaltite 18650 were developed in US (well, Canada) with a laptop in mind. Long runtime, long cycle life. Safety was addressed, first time in battery history, with protective circuitry (SMD power MOSFET just developed) and a dedicated data bus. Double protection (in the charger and battery) were (and still are) the norm in all western design using Li-Ion. This because lithium cobaltite, the ion-storage material, has the bad habit to self-combust in absence of oxygen at temperature above 160 Celsius, with pyrotechnique results, and is unestinguishable. To this day, Li-Ion batteries are not sellable to general public for this very liability. Use of bare Li-Ion batteries still require special training and certifications.
    For years we used Ni-Cd and Ni-MH for all our portable power. Ni-Cd of good quality have unlimited cycle life and do not suffer high drains; Ni-MH (which are the only positive outcome of researches on cold fusion) have limited cycle life and cannot stand high drain, but they took over because are totally "green" as they doesn't contain the cadmium, a toxic heavy metal, and allowed later the "hybrid" technology or ... (low self-discharge). So they became the battery of choice for moderate drain, non-professional use.
    Now, what pointed my intervention is the statement that Ni-MH are most suited for e-cig use. Wrong statement, in all possible shape and forms. It was in year 2008 that built a vape mod by modifying a 3xAA flashlight to test it; I got 30 cycles from Ni-MH and 350 cycles from Ni-Cd AA cells; fully in accordance with know data.
    Also, when shorted out, Ni-MH vent hydrogen gas, while Ni-CD vent oxygen. Ni-MH are prohybited use in sealed underwater lights, where only Ni-Cd are allowed.
    Ni-Cd didn't win the favours of the e-cig market for three reasons. First they are much bulkier than Li-Ions. Second, green laws have phased out Cadmium from consumer market, limiting its use to professional use where long cyclelife coupled with high drain are a must.
    Third reason, lithium minerals are mined in a couple of places on Earth, South America and Far East. China had the technology already developed and free access to the mineral, and they, as inventors of e-cig, set the standard on lithium.
    We developed Li-Mn and later,hybrid cathode battery to overcome the 1C current limit of Li-Co (ICR) cells, so they can be used in power tools. Less repeatibility (IMR do not balance well) but also less of a firework attitude. E-cig mod world found the Li-MN and hybrid batteries readily available for use. Some unattentive persons uses ICR in mods, but all of the battage on safety hopefully will increase knowledge to the point ICR will be sold with the marking "Do not use in e-cig". Hopefully. They are designed for computer battery packs. But make no mistake: all built-in mod batteries (the MVPs, the iSticks, virtually all non-replaceable battery box mods) do not use IMR (Li-MN) batteries inside: they use exclusively Li-Poly batteries. Now, Li-Poly (which uses hybrid cathodes) were designed with high surface exposure to provide very high currents, they are the batteries of choice in RC world. The chemicals are spread in very thin plastic films, they are built without a case or a metal container, just a foil bag. Thus they can set on fire, but not explode. The protective circuitry is mandatory but it is included in the mod box. Not having a container, they are very cheap to produce, and doesn't require expensive manufacturing equipment: this is why any e-cig, from cheap ego batteries to the most expensive Solara DNA mod box, contains lithium polymer batteries. Cheap, good, pretty safe (they make a big fire but no explosions). So, per manufacturer decisions, Li-Poly, to this date, are the most suitable batteries in e-cigs. But.
    Only for manufacturers. End user can't install Li-Poly in mod boxes (or tubes), because they need to be soldered. To be installed by end user, they should be encased, and this would transform them into a liability. End user can only install IMR batteries originally designed for power drills and high power flashlights. The real deal is off-limits per say of the lawyers.
    In reality, the most suitable battery for e-cigs are the LFP type. They could be easily and legally handed by end users, but there are two problems.
    The LFP battery is a Li-FePO4 (iron-phosphor-oxygen) battery where the cathode materials are made of multi-layered microspheres, built with semiconductor-like machinery, where the inner part of the sphere contains the energy, and its surface distribute this energy to the external electrodes.
    This is the state of the art in lithium batteries, 20 years calendar life and 2000 full cycles. But they are 3.2 Volt instead of 3.7 volt, and a 18650 is ten dollars versus 50 cents of a Li-poly 18650 (used in the 20W iStick). They do not fire up nor explode, accept overcharge and are not damaged by overdischarge. They are on sale for specialised uses and, having bought a 12V 10Ah to replace a lead acid battery, I can only confirm that they would be a vaper dream come true if used in a mod. But, again, chinese only manufacture them on licence, the LPF technology is very hard to crack and copy. They are the most suitable batteries for a e-cig mod.
    Regards to all
  2. Baditude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bittermelon
    Hi Bad,

    what's the amp limit for my AW IMR 14500 3.7V 600mAh? Using for powering my REO Mini (original). Thanks.
    The "new" AW IMR14500 650mAh batteries claim a 9 amp continuous discharge rate.

    The older AW IMR14500 600mAh batteries were only a 4 amp continuous.
  3. bittermelon's Avatar
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    Hi Bad,

    what's the amp limit for my AW IMR 14500 3.7V 600mAh? Using for powering my REO Mini (original). Thanks.
  4. Baditude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyjohn
    Right now, I'm using twin Samsung pink batteries ("eVic compatible"), but I'm also using commercial coils of 1.6+ ohms. However, I have a few RBAs ready to build, and will probably create some 0.5-1.0 ohm coils. I know that 20A of battery would get me to 0.8 ohm -- but I've no idea how the dual battery setup affects things. Any advice?
    First of all, I'm pretty sure that those pink Samsungs are ICR batteries (not high drain or safe chemistry), and will have only 3 - 4 amps continuous discharge (not enough amperage for safe sub-ohm use). You'll need at least a 20 amp continuous IMR battery for sub-ohms.

    The light blue Samsung 25R are IMR chemistry, high drain, safe chemistry, and 20 amps continuous discharge.

    Stacking batteries only doubles the voltage output, not the mAh or amperage output.
  5. Baditude's Avatar
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    Those batteries are 20 amp continuous discharge. Mah and amps do not double when stacking batteries, only voltage does. So, despite using two batteries simultaneously (stacked), you're only getting 20 amps continuous (not 40 amps). That's ok in your case though, as high wattage regulated mods likely use only 12 amps continuous.

    Any time you stack batteries you should "marry" or pair the same two batteries when new, and alternate the order that you put them into the mod. The battery closest to the atomizer generally gets drained more and faster than the other. The goal with alternating the pair is to keep them as equal as possible over their lifetime.
  6. Thediscoranger's Avatar
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    I don't know if your still on this but I have a inr18650-25R Samsung Sdi battery well 2 on a sigelie 100w and 0.2 ohms on here are those battery's okay? Also how important do you feel marrying the battery's are? There about like an amp or 2 off so yeah I usually run it at about 50-60 watts 3.6 to 3.8 volts dual coil 24 guage 5 wraps so thank you if you do reply
  7. Tedjameson's Avatar
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    Really helpful! Thanks alot for all the info Baditude!
  8. georgemichael231's Avatar
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    This is awesome! Great knowledge shared on the guide to the juices attachment. Thanks for posting here!
  9. SuperTaz's Avatar
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    Wonderful info!!!!
  10. Baditude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foraben
    The batteries exploding is only on mech mods, right? Could my Sigelei 100w possibly explode if the coils are incorrectly built?
    Theoretically, the protective circuitry of regulated mods should shut down the device prior to any short circuit or battery overload. This is assuming that you are also using safe-chemistry IMR or IMR/hybrid batteries. Do not use ICR chemistry batteries.
  11. foraben's Avatar
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    The batteries exploding is only on mech mods, right? Could my Sigelei 100w possibly explode if the coils are incorrectly built?
  12. heyjohn's Avatar
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    First: thanks, Baditude, for a highly informative page. Second: how does this information apply to mods that take *two* 18650 batteries? I have a Siglei 100W box, and a Dovpo E-Mech. They claim to be able to handle 0.1 ohm and 0.5 ohm, respectively; each one takes two 18650 batteries. Right now, I'm using twin Samsung pink batteries ("eVic compatible"), but I'm also using commercial coils of 1.6+ ohms. However, I have a few RBAs ready to build, and will probably create some 0.5-1.0 ohm coils. I know that 20A of battery would get me to 0.8 ohm -- but I've no idea how the dual battery setup affects things. Any advice?
  13. NicM's Avatar
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    Baditude I looking for some advice.
    I've sort of done things abit backwards...I purchased my batteries my new mod before reading this thread and I'm abit worried I've got cheap nasty batteries. So I kinda want your opinion cos you sound like you know what your talking about.
    I purchased them from my local ecig shop and he talked me into buying the 18650 instead of the smaller ones. After reading your post it looks like mine are the unbranded type, its just a grey battery with stamped black writing, no make or anything and the box says lithium-ion battery.....do you think i should I be concerned? Any help would be great, thanx
  14. nyiddle's Avatar
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    Lol, knew it. When I bought the batteries I was skeptical, and kept in mind that the amp limit was probably 20 and not 35. Built accordingly, and haven't been having any problems at all.
  15. jimho's Avatar
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    Great well thought out write up. This should be required reading for anyone venturing into anything beyond an eGo. Hats off to you for taking the time to write it up.
  16. MorelyMagicMist's Avatar
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    I like this for a tank. You can get affordable coil heads for it too. Recently, got onto using this one. The heads are about a buck more per five pack. Also use an RGM2 tank, which looks similar to one of these. But the RGM2's are available via FastTech for around $10 less. A benefit of the RGM2 tanks is they accept standardized ProTank coil heads which run about $5 per five pack. The UniTank takes these same coil heads.

    Pair any of the three tanks I use above with a standard 900mAh, no vv, battery and a nice system is had. You can get a battery for around $15. I also use a eGo V battery, 1100mAh specifically for the AeroTank. It is vv, I may get 5-6 hours use off it w/ the AeroTank and then, recharge it. The 900mAh with either the RGM2, or Aro gives me anywhere from 8-12 hours use before needing recharged.

    The RGM2 & Aro are good starter clearomizers, even good for vet vapers. The AeroTank though, for me provides more flavor. That I note may vary for everyone. All totaled I think I have less than $50 in hardware as a starter kit. Average yearly hardware cost will run me around $120-150 depending on preferences, hardware wear. Add on an average $100 for juice per year, though I doubt even that. I may hit around $80 for juice. Think I once figured near $200 yearly costs, juice and hardware.

    I consider analogs running around $2,000 - 4,000 yearly, look at vaping costs. I think I'll just on.
  17. YEOJ's Avatar
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    Thanks for the write-up... if you were to reccomend a vape for all day use would it be a mechanical or regulated mod that takes batteries?
  18. fishj's Avatar
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    Baditude, thanks for your work. My question is why won't my XTAR 18650 batteries that are claimed to be Sony VTC4's fit my Vamo but are a bit too long to fit my Innokin VTR, which is why I bought them? I purchased four of them from the Xtar web site. Thanks.
  19. QueenBeast's Avatar
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    Thanks this was very helpful.
  20. Susan~S's Avatar
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    Great resource Bad! I've been posting all your blog links individually (saved in a database). Thanks to Bassnorma's post earlier this evening I learned that you had created this new Table of Contents! Guess I'll be editing a few of my entries in my database to take advantage of this. Thank you so much (and thank you Bassnorma)!
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