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Rayon thread Notable posts 800-1200

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by , 07-27-2014 at 02:14 PM (573 Views)
Quote Originally Posted by brianc11111 View Post
ive noticed that not one person that has tried rayon has said "yeah its ok, but ill stick with cotton".
everyone who tries it says it outperforms cotton
and its still in its infancy.....just wait till its been wrung through the wringer and more evaluations are brought forth.

really people...for something to come out of the gate with such favorable reviews tells me its the real deal!
Quote Originally Posted by SteamHead View Post
That's cool, keep me updated; I've thought of doing the same as well. Rayon really seems to take the kayfun to a whole 'nother level.

*Disclaimer: all my coils are 29ga (cuz that's all I have) and 1.65mm ID (cuz I've been brainwashed by the microcoil thread and i have an 18ga needle)

When I first started with the kayfun I was running 8 wraps, which is the minimum for a true microcoil. That was great for a while (coming from protanks for over a year straight), but soon I wanted more. So I went seven wraps at around 1.1 ohm. Vape was better, but I'd get the occasional dryhit (no matter how much cotton I used), likely because the small amount of cotton just couldn't keep up.

Next I went to dual coils, nine wraps each at .9ohms. Flavor was great, and the extra cotton i could use from x2 coils meant no dry hits. Problem was, it was extremely warm. I like a bit of warmth (which I had never had until now), but this was too much.

Then I discover this thread, found the cellucotton at Sally's, and after a couple good reports I got some as well. Because of the wicking quality, I knew I could go back to a single coil and be just fine. Decide to try a twisted coil, which would get me to a low ohm while spreading the heat out over a much larger surface area. Used the drill (dremel actually) method and it came out beautiful, like it was from the factory. I ended up at 8 wraps (I think, I'll hafta check when I break it down again) at .7-.6ohms (provari read .7 for a second then faulted, idk). This was lower than i wanted to be, because of the warmth from my dual coil .9 build, but i figured I'd try it anyways.

Stuffed it full on rayon (about 40% more than I'd use with cotton) and proceeded to vape.
Amazing flavor, big clouds, perfect warmth (not as hot as my .9 DC build, weird). Two tanks in and never a dry hit. It's actually STILL krackling every time I hit it (always a sign for me of a new, clean coil/wick), where with cotton the krackle would stop halfway through the tank, if that (I like very sweet juice that caramelizes very quickly).

Rayon really is the solution for microcoils in a Kayfun, and helps this atty specifically a great deal.

Needless to say, I'm in vaping heaven right now and I owe it to all the participants in this thread, and especially JeremyRayon.

Thanks, guys!

Quote Originally Posted by pmcode View Post
I will state one more time, I am more than willing to PIF with this stuff. Don't think I could ever go through the 1200 feet of this stuff I have.

PM me, and I can stick a couple feet in an envelope for anybody on the fence about trying this, or who can't justify purchasing a large amount of this stuff.
Quote Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
It's evident that the least amount of density you need to remain in contact with the coil when broke in is best for higher wattage. A tighter density may be better for low wattage so it's not so saturated. It hasn't been confirmed but that's were I'm leaning.
Quote Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
Wow you got a cotton taste.. Maybe it was left over from the cotton wick... But seriously you must have used a ton rolled tight or it wasn't saturated fully.

I did keep saying 2-3 times just to try to break the less is more habit. Because when this breaks in it gets smaller, also the bottle rayon I had was washed so it came out fluffier, the cellucotton is slightly tighter to begin with. 2 times seems right with cellucotton out the box as its tighter.

Are you rolling your wick. It sounds like you probably rolled it tight, something like you would see on youtube with cotton. That's probably why it took so long to break in.. Don't roll it tight. Only the point tip should be tight enough to get through the coil. Seperate a piece that looks twice as big as the coil. Lightly roll in your palms just to a round shape not compressed to look like silica.

See how fluffy I've left this wick before it was pulled through. (This was boiled bottle rayon but it shows the fluffy density you really want)

Point the end through grab both side lightly twist just enough to bring to coil size to pull it through. Untwist check for slide with some resistance. Trim your tails a little longer.

I say a little longer because the rayon delivers juice so quick to the coil that a short one can be run dry with high wattage fast. But typically the coil will dry before the rayon starts to burn.

We are going on only 2 weeks since others have started trying it in different configurations. I have always used it in verticals and just intee last two weeks got a flashi and working with horizontal through coil wicking with it.

Basically when the wick is broke in after a day you want it to look like your cotton or hemp. Nice and straight out the coil with possibly a ever so slight shoulder. As long as it doesn't loose contact with the top ends of the coil.
Quote Originally Posted by stashbldr View Post
ha ha ha Jeremy, those same 2 things happened to me last night too! One time it was because battery was one vape away from dying and I'd forgotten to change it sooner .. and the other time got a dry hit because I had forgotten to squonk after 6 or 7 hits. Gotta love it

I've changed all 4 of my Reo's to this rayon, all on a 1/16 28 gauge 8 wrap coil ... the best 2 days of vaping I have EVER had!
Quote Originally Posted by abpigdoc View Post
A commendation to you, Jeremy. You have performed admirably as scientific researcher and innovator. Your discovery was one that may have changed, in a significant measure, the advancing of our products in ways that we and their manufacturers had no way to gauge. You anticipated the appreciation that we all have had for your happy discovery, and we should all be extremely grateful for your tireless efforts in the growing acceptance of rayon as a wick. My figurative hat is off to you.

Heres my video [/QUOTE]

Quote Originally Posted by sedge View Post
I just knew this was forthcoming.
emostorm7 and JimmyDB like this.


  1. JeremyR's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by turbocad6 View Post
    Well I've been playing with this stuff past week and personally I find that it doesn't really need to be as densely packed as many in this thread would suggest... for me anyway, I find that too densely packed and I can taste the wick, my happy place is probably ~ 1.5-2 times as much as I would use for cotton, ymmv but I agree with some of the latest postings, simply insure that after it's fully juiced up and broken in that it's not loose in the ends of the coils, as long as it's dense enough to not shrink down to where it's loose on the ends then it seems good to me, personally I don't agree that you can't use too much though, maybe at lower power levels? don't know, I'm usually vaping at higher power levels of at least between 20 and 30 watts or more
    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
    It took someone to believe me before it took off. The earth is not flat didn't take on till more people beloved it and actually tried to reach the end only to find they ended up right back where they started.

    Pretty soon I will put together a compilation the scientific related posts on rayon. Realize I'm smart but I could be wrong about something and have no problem if someone has a legit argument...
    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
    Yes my 2-3 times recommendation was based on the boiled bottle rayon that comes out much fluffier afterwards.

    Just recieved cellucotton a day ago and it's denser to start with so 1.5-2 is about right. !

    Were only at 6 days working with cc so were still experimenting.
    Quote Originally Posted by SteamHead View Post
    This is CRAZY and so cool!

    Really glad some people here have an open mind (even more so than me, and I consider myself pretty open-minded), because like you said, without them you woulda been vaping this amazing stuff all by yourself, lol.

    Honestly, for the first couple weeks, I was scrolling right past this thread, probably thinking "... kinda retards are over there vapin nylon lol". The longer the thread hung around, the more it prompted me to finally check it out... so glad I did!
    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
    "One of the best things about ECF is everyone shares their nuggets of knowledge with everyone else, advancing the whole community"

    That's what I've always seen this community as and why I enjoy it here so much.

    The part of your test that's flawed is it only shows how much the wick will absorb into itself. Cotton ball looks to absorb more than rayon but we all know rayon works better for us... what we're saying is the big difference is the way rayon releases The juice to the coil it doesn't hold it.

    It's more like a plumbing pipe running straight to your coil. it's not so much that it absorbs But That it transports to the heat. You don't burn the rayon with a coil to burn the juice inside like cotton. The rayon floods the juice onto the coil instead. What good is the juice if it's absorbed into a cotton wick you need it on your coil.

    The only true test is equal coils and wicks lit up at same power. Leave 1 inch tails.. burn them record results, draining of the wick characteristics, transportation visible In the wick, dryness of wick when vapor production decreases. And what point the wick burns so that you smell that cotton start to light up. I could probably add more, but it would have to be real world. And you already have it in your attys.

    One very interesting thing and probably the most telling is having it in a dripper, pull the top off every hit when your getting towards the end. You see the wick drying but your vape is still wet. Cotton dry hit the tails are still wet.

    It's clear to us that some mysterious force causes it to get more juice on the coil in real world use.
    Quote Originally Posted by stashbldr View Post
    Does this CC ever get yucky? I've vaped 30ml thru this one wick and coil and my wick is still a bright white, looks brand new .. no yucky burnt color anywhere. Amaaaaazing stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by stashbldr View Post
    My neighbor is an internal medicine doctor, I asked him for his opinion last week. He looked closely at both the KGD and the CC, he even used a magnifying glass. He told me he'd much rather see me vaping with the CC, he was very leary of the manufacturing process of the KGD, didn't like some of the little thingies he saw in under thru a magnifying glass and he felt of all the different vaping materials that I've shown him in the past for vaping (CVS cotton, silica, peaches & cream, bamboo, ReadyX, and others) that he thinks the CC is the safest for me to use. Just one doctors opinion but one that I personally trust a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
    Thanks for that.

    I've been in close relation with top natural doctors over the years and essentially this is laboratory quality cellulose fibers.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
    Most all rayon is oeko tex certified free from harmful chemicals.

    From oeko

    "After the brouhaha about bamboo viscose hit the press, many people did a quick scan of viscose and declared it “unsafe” for the environment. The reason the viscose process is thought to be detrimental to the environment is based on the process chemicals used.

    Though sodium hydroxide is routinely used in the processing of organic cotton, and is approved by the Global Organic Textile Standard (GOTS), carbon disulfide can cause nervous system damage with chronic exposure.*(add - in manufacturing) And that “chemical bath” to harden the threads? Sulfuric acid.

    But these chemicals do not remain as a residue on the fibers – the proof of this is that almost all of the viscose produced can be (and often is) Oeko Tex certified (which certifies that the finished fiber has been tested for any chemicals which may be harmful to a person’s health and contains no trace of these chemicals.)"

    Oeko-Tex | O ECOTEXTILES

    *Yes sodium hydroxide is used in processing even organic cotton. Thats caustic soda or lye. *
    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
    Cuando you realize the huge educational process this would entail I'm sure. At some point when someone hears anything about a chemical they will shy away..

    But again those out there look into how is your nic extracted... It doesn't just fall off a plant. There are many chemicals even petrochemicals used to extract the nicotine.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
    There's are many more posts in here about the safety concerns. The thread is running so fast that it's hard to keep the info in view. I'm thinking just putting a lot of it in a blog that way it will always be right there.

    I am not the end all be all, I have no gas spectrum analyzer equipment. I only use deductive reasoning and research to extrapolate data to come up with my grounded opinion.

    The amount of data is a lot to put together and in a way that is understandable to everyone easily. It will be comming.

    This put it this way the end product of the final chemical reaction produces nearly pure cellulose except for some salts.

    Rayon fiber = Cellulose OH + Na2 So4

    So the pure cellulose atom has a sodium sulfate bond attached to it, sodium sulfate is an inorganic salt used in many products like soaps. Look on and soap bottle it has a sodium sulfate of one type or another . Most common sodium laurel sulfate, to genericize it.lol

    At any rate te wick imparts no bad taste to the juice.

    Realize when a chemical reaction occurs it changes the chemical make up of the product.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
    You've got some good answers here. I'll add my thoughts.

    The coil stays wetter so it doesn't gunk as fast. Gunking of the coil is caused by the coil running lean. When it approaches dry burn from poor wick transfer the heat ramps up and the juice that's left on it Carmelizes. Like a frying pan. I found out that coils were always much dryer than you think and on the edge of a dry burn condition. Say you put a piece of meat in and start frying at high temp. The pan stays clean till the liquids in the juice starts to boil off and your left with that gunk on the pan. The other way you coil gunks is residual heat on the coil after a hit when a heavy gauge coil has a lot of heat left in it and your not drawing air across to vaporize the juice will coke up on the coils.

    I've found you can markedly reduce gunking by letting off the fire button 1-2 seconds before you finish your draw so the coil vaporizes the juice off its self while it's still hot and also cooling the coil down.. Instead of sitting there cooking juice with no air for vaporization.

    There is another are where rayon can make your vape safer. Vg when heated to that near dry burn level or burn creates a toxin. Rayon/CCr keeps you coil from going dry and overheating causing the production of acrylimides(?). So it can reduce you exposer to this chemical.

    We have had coils gunk up quickly with CCr if you use too much density te coil will gunk up.
  2. JeremyR's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by super_X_drifter View Post
    Fairly compelling views regarding organic / untreated natural cotton and the impurities trapped in the fibers or leached from the air by the fibers in the fields. That is a fact worthy of consideration.

    Add in some possible residual pesticides and yes, it does sound like there may be some reason to question lesser processed cotton.

    Well I have never boiled any wicking media before but I just boiled me about a foot of CC, rolled it up into a wheel (like a fruit roll up) gently wrung it out and now have it hanging in front of a small fan to dry it.

    This should negate any residuals (if there were any).

    After reading a bit about rayon production, I guess I'm thinking that yes CC is extruded with chemicals but once those chemicals are no longer present (as in dissipated or washed off) it must be pretty damn clean?

    Anyhoo, I'm just trying to be as safe as possible. That's why I ran cotton - I thought / felt it was safe. I know their is no guarantees but I'm not wanting to look back one day and go "damn I shouldn't have vaped with (insert any vape related item here).

    Yes, I've prolly ingested / inhaled, aside from cigs, a great bit more stuff I shouldn't have than many of you combined. But I'm not a dumbass young punk any more. And all the cyber badasses who don't understand why people are so concerned about this now because we "smoked this and did that". Cool. I'm not asking you to understand why I make the choices I do. You can believe and / or vape whatever the F you want. Rock freakin on. The key word is "choice" and it's MY choice.

    Bottom line is were all speculating here on what's safe and what isn't with most (if not all) of what we vape. This product is no exception. There are no tests or data to support its safety in relation to vaping and who knows about the long them? Nobody. Not your doctor, not some organization that certifies textiles. Nobody.

    So we have to make educated (or from the heart) guesses.

    I think right now my heart feels that once that CC is dry I'm gonna wick up all three of my daily drivers and get on with it.
    [QUOTE=JeremyR;13394349]Here is an example of too little rayon.. A post will follow with a better amount. At lower watts this may ride but higher watts you'll get drying of the coil due to no contact with wick

    Too light on density

    Good density

    Too light of a density.

    Just about right
  3. JeremyR's Avatar
    First wick at 5 min vape time .. 1.4 // 32 @ 5.5v stacked zmax

    About a Proper wick just soaked you can go slightly lighter as long as you don't lose contact when broke in that's most important.

    What happens when you don't use enough, this is first wick after an hour..

    See the gap, you'll have poor contact across the top of the coil. Causing the coil to dry.

    2nd wick well broke in... 4 hours 1.4 // 32 @ 5.8 v I could have went a little lighter on the density in something like a tiafun also.

    Most important is use the density that stays in full contact, a light contact is optimol. So straight out. Or enough that your soaked wick is juicing the whole circumference of the coil. If you keep the wick in juice the lighter you can go while not loosing juice contact at the coil the better it will work and the longer coil life before gunking.. So if you run a long time with no gunking and no drying... You know your used the optimol density for your set-up

    It essentially should look like a good wick when broke in.[/QUOTE]
  4. JeremyR's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by stashbldr View Post
    People who have been wicking with cotton are use to the cotton expanding and they expect the same to happen with the CC ... but the rayon doesn't expand like cotton does.
    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalM1nd View Post
    Honestly, even though I know what you mean by now, the density in the first and second picture look exactly the same to me
    But yeah, the soaked wick definitely matters more and you can see the difference more clearly.

    Also, shoutouts to the amazing twgbonehead who sent me some CC today. Will compare it to my viscose balls as soon as it arrives!

    I also got my Fogger V4.3 coming in today, im curious if there will be any difference between it and the original V4 when using CC.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
    You can tell by the opacity of the two in the pics, first one you can see the post through it, second one you can't see the post through it.

    Thanks twigbonehead.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
    I used rayon first in pack builds like the op... The key is when it shrinks just add little tufts in to bring it back in contact with coil. Either tuck from the bottom or top with fluffy small tufts.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
    Don't worry cuando I have no issue answering any questions about it.. And again part of this thread was to determine safety. Which I have dug in deep too, and am 99% confident that it is totally safe in the cellucotton form. I am confident at this point that I can quelch any nonsense accusation. With factual based scientific evidence.

    there is a huge amount of data to try to convey to the uneducated masses. It's a huge uphill battle and since I don't profit from this it's not something I'm trying to do as its a lot of work.as I said before I really don't care what other people think, if they say its plastic, I laugh and think.. I'm not wasting my time on them... It's like bringing a completly new product to market you have to spend a ton of money just to educate people to understand it.(think shark tank, I like that show)

    But someone interested I will oblige to answer intelligent concerns.

    Can you send me a link to that, seeing this type of info will help me in putting together the abstract on rayon, CCr. I'm stacking my chips bro.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
    If you fully prime it, takes a couple times to get it fully saturated. In 3-5 minutes should be good to go.. The breaking we speak of is the wick gets smaller after all the air is expelled from the fibers nooks.

    If you actually taste a paper type taste you either have hot spots or legs, or you have in fact managed to use too much, which is pretty hard if you don't hard roll it. The majority of dry type hits anyone will get in this is in fact the coil it's self dry burning not the rayon.

    Kinda sounds like you rolled it tight like silica before you fed it in, making it too tight in the coil and /or choking the wicking ability. What I love about it is the fluffiness.

    Look at my posts today and te one about stretching the wick. Pull off what looks like 2-3 times the size of your coil do not roll it at all except to lay all the fibers down. Get your tip in start pulling through it Gould get snug.. Stop .. pull the other end of wick to stretch it while applying very light pulling pressure, as it stretches down it will start to slide though that's where you want it.

    You can click on my name and view forum posts to see all my posts on this subject.