Advocating reasonable laws for e-cigarettes

[Surf Monkey]

Fantastic work. Please let us know if there's anything we can do to help.

[katzndawgs]

I'm new here and this is my first post, but I am just stunned by this misinformation! I've been lurking here almost a month, when I found this forum and bought my 901 on 5/22. After 30+ years of smoking, 1 - 2 packs a day, I've been virtually smoke-free since! Ok, so I've smoked maybe 8 or 10 analogs since then, and only when alcohol was involved But even then, it just wasn't the same, they didn't taste good, and didn't start the craving again.

The eCig has been a miracle for me! I've tried other NRTs, but none has addressed the behavioral and psychological aspects of smoking like this. Smoking addiction involves much more than just nicotine. Now this legislator wants to equate PVs with candy?!?!?

[TnA]

Spikey, Josh and myself have been meeting with Suffolk County legislators for the last two weeks in an effort to get them more informed on this subject. We have presented many of the legislators with the following studies...

Propylene Glycol Research Study Results


On thursday we will be meeting with the Honorable Jon Cooper himself.

Hopefully we can get him to understand that he has been grossly misinformed and he will be willing to amend the one paragraph where he essentially sneaks in the text about prohibiting use in public areas where smoking is prohibited.

The Long Island Vapers Club will NOT give up. As the article states, Suffolk County has led the way for anti smoking legislation so we understand the critical importance of not letting this legislation pass under its current form. It WILL be used as a model for other localities so we are working hard to make sure it gets modeled in a responsible fashion.

DW

DW, that's great to hear! I wish you guys the best of luck and I will happily offer my assistance in any way I can. I just wish we had people like Mr Godshall actively engaging in these issues (nationwide vice just their geographical area). While I'm sure his intent was to inform and warn, it also reeks of fear-mongering without his active support/assistance.

[boxhead]

gool luck to you guys and girls on thursday with m#$%^ cooper, having tried to get on an e-cigs on a dinky little fair in shasta county only to be met with such complete scorn and hostility not to mention ingnorince<sp> i am glad you have a little more than luck on your side. being able to bring out the positves and bring some true facts to the table...

[Lala]

The misinformation is unforgivable! To take a positive step for so many and demonize it! How dare they publish such ignorant, biased and obviously un-researched tripe? What happened to integrity in the news media, to basic background information being gathered before submitting a piece? What happened to supporting a statement?

"But now a new, high-tech smoking threat has emerged in the form of “electronic cigarettes. “ "
It is not even smoking! VAPOR

"Marketed towards young smokers,"
Really? how? where? aren't many users actually middle-aged who have struggled with other forms of quitting?

"(often through kid-friendly, flavored cartridges)"
Because only kids like flavors! next we will ban fruity 'girly' alcoholic drinks!

"The cartridge and ignition system are housed in a device created to look exactly like a traditional cigarette."
Hmm, except for the devices that seem most popular on this forum at least, and my own two types! This again shows lack of real research for the article.

"the user then blows out the heated vapors producing a “cloud” of undetermined substances that is virtually indistinguishable from traditional smoke."
Undetermined? The three ingredients are known and listed. (if talking about PG, the alternative mixes are also known)

" “These devices combine the appeal of an iPod with that of candy cigarettes. ... "
Yes kids might find them appealing, just like cars, but they cant have them either!


"But kids are getting their hands on them."
Who? Where? If so, then that is irresponsible and wrong, but is it really an issue? had he backed up this statement at all?

"A known neurotoxin, nicotine is also one of the most highly addictive substances available for public consumption. More lethal than strychnine, just 60 milligrams of nicotine on the tongue —about three drops—is enough to kill a 160 pound person. In contrast: The lethal dose for strychnine is 75 mg, for diamondback rattlesnake venom it’s 100 mg, you’d need to ingest 200 mg of arsenic to do somebody in, and Cyanide's lethal dose is 500 mg."
True, but used in an inflammatory way. When used properly, following directions, these concentrations are not being used. When used improperly anything can be dangerous! They are not selling pure nicotine, three drops of what is actually sold is not lethal! how about over the counter and prescription meds? Pure concentrations of the active ingredients are just as lethal. Yes, I could misuse my liquid and kill myself, just like I could any number of common substances to the same effect.

"The appeal created by the flavorings of e-cigarette cartridges (including cherry, grape and vanilla, just to name a few) can lead young people into a lifetime of nicotine addiction. "
Ok, so don't give them to kids, they are not meant for kids! Again, only children like flavors? When I started smoking as a child, I cared more about what the other kids thought then if it tasted good, it was about proving something. As a teen I drank my hard alcohol straight, again proving something. Now I only drink what I like, what is wrong with vaping what I like? Don't demonize the vapor, just go ahead and prosecute adults who would give it to a minor.

"can make whatever claims they want about these dangerous devices."
Again, dangerous when used properly? Really? Wanna back that up?

"telling customers they can legally be smoked anywhere, which has already led to altercations between non-smoking restaurant patrons and “e-smokers.” "
Yes, blame the device for ignorant users with attitudes.

"This is causing distress from non-smokers worried about the health effects of second-hand smoke."
Again, not smoke. Distress from ignorance about a new product, not a problem from the new product. People should be considerate around others. No, people should not subject others to their vapor if it bothers anyone, even just psychologically. Just as they shouldn't subject others to a cloud of perfume that could irritate. And users should be aware that some people are sensitive to chemicals like PG, I would never use this in a room with my grandma, (just like I would never spray anything around her)

"It’s also causing confusion for public health agencies that are not sure what, if any, authority they have to prevent e-smokers from powering up and puffing away."
Why should they have control over my choices? If I don't make a nuisance of myself, leave me be!

"If we fail to act on this newest front, the future casualties will be our own children.” "
Yes the author is quoting someone, but this quote is an obvious emotional argument, not a logical one. A common tool for propaganda.

Sorry this was so long, but the ignorance and bias is infuriating. I am not against reasonable legislation at all, just against this misinformation being swallowed by people unknowingly.

[Spikey]

The misinformation is unforgivable! To take a positive step for so many and demonize it! How dare they publish such ignorant, biased and obviously un-researched tripe? What happened to integrity in the news media, to basic background information being gathered before submitting a piece? What happened to supporting a statement?

"But now a new, high-tech smoking threat has emerged in the form of “electronic cigarettes. “ "
It is not even smoking! VAPOR

"Marketed towards young smokers,"
Really? how? where? aren't many users actually middle-aged who have struggled with other forms of quitting?

"(often through kid-friendly, flavored cartridges)"
Because only kids like flavors! next we will ban fruity 'girly' alcoholic drinks!

"The cartridge and ignition system are housed in a device created to look exactly like a traditional cigarette."
Hmm, except for the devices that seem most popular on this forum at least, and my own two types! This again shows lack of real research for the article.

"the user then blows out the heated vapors producing a “cloud” of undetermined substances that is virtually indistinguishable from traditional smoke."
Undetermined? The three ingredients are known and listed. (if talking about PG, the alternative mixes are also known)

" “These devices combine the appeal of an iPod with that of candy cigarettes. ... "
Yes kids might find them appealing, just like cars, but they cant have them either!


"But kids are getting their hands on them."
Who? Where? If so, then that is irresponsible and wrong, but is it really an issue? had he backed up this statement at all?

"A known neurotoxin, nicotine is also one of the most highly addictive substances available for public consumption. More lethal than strychnine, just 60 milligrams of nicotine on the tongue —about three drops—is enough to kill a 160 pound person. In contrast: The lethal dose for strychnine is 75 mg, for diamondback rattlesnake venom it’s 100 mg, you’d need to ingest 200 mg of arsenic to do somebody in, and Cyanide's lethal dose is 500 mg."
True, but used in an inflammatory way. When used properly, following directions, these concentrations are not being used. When used improperly anything can be dangerous! They are not selling pure nicotine, three drops of what is actually sold is not lethal! how about over the counter and prescription meds? Pure concentrations of the active ingredients are just as lethal. Yes, I could misuse my liquid and kill myself, just like I could any number of common substances to the same effect.

"The appeal created by the flavorings of e-cigarette cartridges (including cherry, grape and vanilla, just to name a few) can lead young people into a lifetime of nicotine addiction. "
Ok, so don't give them to kids, they are not meant for kids! Again, only children like flavors? When I started smoking as a child, I cared more about what the other kids thought then if it tasted good, it was about proving something. As a teen I drank my hard alcohol straight, again proving something. Now I only drink what I like, what is wrong with vaping what I like? Don't demonize the vapor, just go ahead and prosecute adults who would give it to a minor.

"can make whatever claims they want about these dangerous devices."
Again, dangerous when used properly? Really? Wanna back that up?

"telling customers they can legally be smoked anywhere, which has already led to altercations between non-smoking restaurant patrons and “e-smokers.” "
Yes, blame the device for ignorant users with attitudes.

"This is causing distress from non-smokers worried about the health effects of second-hand smoke."
Again, not smoke. Distress from ignorance about a new product, not a problem from the new product. People should be considerate around others. No, people should not subject others to their vapor if it bothers anyone, even just psychologically. Just as they shouldn't subject others to a cloud of perfume that could irritate. And users should be aware that some people are sensitive to chemicals like PG, I would never use this in a room with my grandma, (just like I would never spray anything around her)

"It’s also causing confusion for public health agencies that are not sure what, if any, authority they have to prevent e-smokers from powering up and puffing away."
Why should they have control over my choices? If I don't make a nuisance of myself, leave me be!

"If we fail to act on this newest front, the future casualties will be our own children.” "
Yes the author is quoting someone, but this quote is an obvious emotional argument, not a logical one. A common tool for propaganda.

Sorry this was so long, but the ignorance and bias is infuriating. I am not against reasonable legislation at all, just against this misinformation being swallowed by people unknowingly.

Thanks Lala! I spent a few hours doing the same thing as above.. picking this apart and defending the incorrect statements with FACTS. I will be likely to call Newsday and ask them to print the article I am writing to refute the article above. The Health Commisioner Dr.Chaudry is REALLY a Doctor??? Are we sure??? Cause he is having PRINTED outright LIES! And by the way.. he HAS received the info on PG being non harmful (from the Long Island Vapers Club) and as a DOCTOR he knows the amounts of nic we use are NOT dangerous yet he was STILL willing to say that in a NEWSPAPER!!!Are you freakin kidding me?

TB... I may PM you for editing and suggestions on the article I am working on.

Now what do we need??? PHYSICAL SUPPORT!!!!

3 people allowed to speak for 5 minutes each will mean we speak for 15 minutes. They will allow ANYONE to speak at this meeting... even if you get up and say "vaping has helped me cause my clothes don't smell and my kids will hug me again and my car seat doesn't get burn holes in it anymore and blah, blah, blah".

SO... if TWELVE people speak for 5 minutes each.... we then have 1 HOUR to help them "get it". PLEASE guys!!! We NEED your help! I don't care if you drive the 4 hours from NJ to speak for 5 minutes... if this could save the PV isn't it worth it???

[Spikey]

Oh yeah! And write some letters to the newspaper to say that they printed something that was NOT true in MANY ways! They don't like to feel like idiots!!!

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

Oh yeah! And write some letters to the newspaper to say that they printed something that was NOT true in MANY ways! They don't like to feel like idiots!!!

The newspaper will be getting a rebuttal from me - no worries there...

We're seeing a swing back to the ugly side of "I hate E-Cigs," again....their rebuttals to our arguements, so to speak. Really wish they'd come up with something new to fight over, instead of the same tired rhetoric (think of the children, fercristsake!) - you know, perhaps the truth as to why they don't like our toys...

I know - pipe dreams - they can't out the real reasons - because that would expose them as the power-mad control freaks they are.

Glad to see ya back, Spikey - you're one of the greatest assets this forum (and the entire PV movement) has.... and you got my support 100%!

[Spikey]

Just so you are all aware... The article HAS a place for readers to post COMMENTS!!! Click the link in the OP and you can make comments at the bottom of the article. Since the comments need to be "approved" first... I would think that they would not post the ones stating the article is composed from lies and fabrications.. but they do seem to be fair about posting comments... so give it a try!!

[TheIllustratedMan]

Just a quick comment on the whole flavor issue...

Is strawberry lube made for kids?

Because that's gross.