Preparing For "Civil Disobedience". - Page 3
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Thread: Preparing For "Civil Disobedience".

  1. #21
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    Ummmm... It's not propaganda. It's fact.

    Might want to do some research. The current budget for the state of Texas is $94.6 BILLION.
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    Figure the government will lock us up?!



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    Quote Originally Posted by LDS714 View Post
    Ummmm... It's not propaganda. It's fact.

    Might want to do some research. The current budget for the state of Texas is $94.6 BILLION.
    Sorry my mistake, but its ok. You can point out my 1 error and ignore every other point I've made throughout my numerous posts. Great debating, make Rick Perry proud.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonV View Post
    Sorry my mistake, but its ok. You can point out my 1 error and ignore every other point I've made throughout my numerous posts. Great debating, make Rick Perry proud.
    The one about BT not being for regulation, the one about the Master Settlement being propaganda or the one about the state budget?

    Regulations, especially onerous ones, are only inevitable if enough people believe them to be. You're making Clayton Williams proud - relax and enjoy it.
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    Settle down... do not make it personal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LDS714 View Post
    It's all about the money.

    Look into the Master Settlement Agreement. They're pumping billions into state and local governments (which incidentally is probably less than they would have spent on advertising). If people switch to vaping, they drop the cigarettes, costing both the politicians and BT megabucks.

    Here's an outstanding post from another thread:
    What is driving states to keep up those tobacco settlements is not their current operating budget. Most states SOLD their yearly payments for one time cash outs (at about $0.30 on the dollar) and that money was spent. They were pretty congfluted deals that have resulted in adding to their deficits. Wall street made money on them.

    BT benefits from some of the regulations, like ending online sales. They have established markets and distribution (convienence stores, Walmarts, etc) that small suppliers don't have. Vuse has a chipset that won't allow it to work once the cartridge runs out - no DIY or refilling. On the "wish list" in the EU was single use cartridges only. They also have the pockets to do the research (however most of that will be funded at taxpayer expense which isn't available to small developers).

    They have only invested in cigalikes which are largley ineffective. I suspect the market has already been divided. Ineffective devices allowed OTC and more effective (so they say) given to BP.

    Gosh, what happens when something is banned? Everybody wants it. It'll follow the route of other illegals, piracy, warez in private forms, ways to stay anonymous, dark nets, not your average mom and pop stuff. They'll have to get their 13 year old to get it for them. I can't think of better advertising to attract kids than a ban.

    The biggest issue is going to be getting nic across the border and payment gateways.
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    Interesting.

    In a social climate where 'green' is so highly valued, you'd think we could leverage that aspect against such regulation. Use & toss type devices are about as anti-green as you can get - especially something that contains as much toxic crap as batteries.

    As far as getting nicotine, it is possible to do NETs (Naturally Extracted Tobaccos) as a DIY, but testing/verifying the nicotine content is a bit involved for most people.

    It's sad, every roadblock to easy access of vaping gear/supplies just drives more nails into premature coffins.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDS714 View Post
    The one about BT not being for regulation, the one about the Master Settlement being propaganda or the one about the state budget?

    Regulations, especially onerous ones, are only inevitable if enough people believe them to be. You're making Clayton Williams proud - relax and enjoy it.
    Let me stat this again. REGULATION IS INEVITABLE. We can either help write them or we can't. I personally prefer if CASAA did lobbying for regulation that prevents vaping from being lumped up with cigarettes. There are ways to do that, like pay for research that determines whether vaping is a better alternative, chemist to create e-liquid ingredients that are safer and approved by FDA. People hear regulation and assume ban, that isn't the case IF WE WRITE THE REGULATIONS. However, if all we do is oppose regulations then we are screwed.
    Are you opposed to age limitations? Preventing ingredients like artificial food coloring being used? It already happened once, people vaping product/s that had cancerous agents in them.

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    I don't have a single problem with Civil Disobedience in any form; it's the only possible answer to stupid laws. I don't construe Civil Disobedience as standing on your car with a bullhorn announcing that you feel Law x is stupid and therefore will not comply with it; it means doing whatever you're going to do, in private. In your home, or if out in public, in a discreet place and manner that doesn't draw attention. It's hard to stop people from doing things that no one knows they're doing.

    And yeah I think the rebuildable stuff is where most long-time vapers end up, for this reason and probably a lot of others just as sound. Eventually I'll get there too, I'm sure, though I only just started.

    And you're absolutely right about the right to life trumping anyone's "right" to pass and enforce stupid laws; in one of our own historical documents, there is a reference to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," as in, those are our rights. Denying smokers the option to vape is taking all three, because if they take your life, you have no liberty, and you damn sure can't have happiness if you're dead.

    Andria
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    Smoke-free and

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndriaD View Post
    I don't have a single problem with Civil Disobedience in any form; it's the only possible answer to stupid laws.
    Most forms of civil disobediance have been or will be made illegal. Including a decline in sales. It's been that way for awhile now (before Obama). "What they don't know" has seriously erroded. Anyone living paycheck to paycheck (80%) can't afford to be targeted / suspected and it's not only their lives that are at risk, but their families too. BP and BT wrote their own regulations. The FDA is mearly a tool, their public face. Follow the money. Corporations have more money than the gov't. They also have a legal obligation to make money without ethics or morals. "To big to fail".

    I don't think anyone is against regulations like selling to minors, accurate labeling, quality assurances, etc. but the tobacco regulations don't address public health concerns. All of them propose are 100% about marketplace control.
    Last edited by aikanae1; 02-26-2014 at 09:23 AM.
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