Customs Discussions -Outside Canada Orders/Shipping/Returns

[cebu4u]

Thanks so much Nehe;
For putting all of this information. I'm sure it is going to be really helpful for all of us who have to get through this.

"When I asked: "what is the status of this product, will it be approved, etc"
- I was told no supplier has sent in products to study... if a Chinese supplier is willing to submit a product, they would be more than happy to look at it."

Personally, I have 14 suppliers on my MSN list and I chat with them regularly. I am going to email each one and ask them to send a product to Health Canada. I will pay the cost if necessary.

Rhonda

So I spoke with Health Canada again today... mainly because it's the 6th, and I wanted to find out if there was any way to obtain confirmation that my letter was indeed received. I sent an email to the email address supplied on the letter and to the email address at the top of the link I sent above. I did not receive any confirmation that the letter was read (which I find ignorant).

This is what I was told (in short).

- You will not receive confirmation, but no news is good news.
- If I sent to both addresses, they will have received my letter.
- There is no system in place to show I have already talked about this issue.
- All blocks at customs are handled individually, by customs/health canada but a file is kept at health canada on how many letters have gone out, individuals, etc.
- Right now they are trying to "educate the public"
- The second letter is what is sent out on each order stopped after the initial "nicer" letter. If you have a third order held, you get a second letter again.
- Once you have had a package held (from anyone), you are put onto a list. Which explains why none of my orders from known ecig sellers get to me. (instantly to customs).
- Basically calling the number will do nothing for you. They will ramble off a premade message about health, tell you there is not much they can do, listen, and that's about it.

When I asked: "what is the status of this product, will it be approved, etc"
- I was told no supplier has sent in products to study... if a Chinese supplier is willing to submit a product, they would be more than happy to look at it.
- The amount of time it takes to study the product is just one month from the time it has been received, but the amount of time to come to a decision is unknown.

When I asked how the nicotrol inhaler can be sold over the counter, with nicotine cartridges, working in a similar manner to an e-cig minus the vapour, they did not have an answer for me... and pretended to write something down after asking "what was the name of that device".
- I commented that it's easy to obtain, makes me dizzy if smoked too much, has just as much of a nicotine hit, the cartridge is much larger than an e-cig, and it's marketed as a stop smoking device. I then added that it does NOT work... no comment.

When I asked why the case for it is not classified as a drug delivery system, I again received no comment.

When I stated that both my parents passed away from smoking and I did not want to die the same way... going into details about how much better I feel, I was told "We hear this hundreds of times a day, every day".

Sorry nothing more to comment on... and nothing really to help our cause... but figured I'd let you all know.

[NeHe]

Do you have a mate or sibling that you could address packages to, to avoid the automatic inspection?

I actually had one package from a known blocked supplier with my full name go to a different address and it made it through. So it is my understanding that they need to know the source and destination to do the automatic inspections. If either changes, there is a change the package will make it through as long as it's not caught in one of the random inspections.

[NeHe]

I really think Canadians need to band together and either attempt to work with the ECA or start our own Canadian ECA. The reason I say attempt is because of the following message I received:

We are just now working out how involved the ECA will be in Canada,
based on their current stance. Any information pertaining to Canada
will be posted on www.ecassoc.org.

James Watt
ECA Vice Chair
support@ecigaretteassociation.org
I have to admit, I was a little saddened when I found out that the ECA did not currently have any involvement in Canada. I was under the impression it was formed for the good of everyone (including Australia).

I've been talking with Pat Ovelson quite a bit and feel Crown7's case is VERY similar to Smoking Everywhere's current case. Crown7 received all of the proper paperwork from Health Canada. They were aware of what was being imported... Above and beyond, only to have their business all but shut down with almost no warning.

What I find most impressive about Pat is his passion, and research into this subject. I know there are many others out there just as passionate... Rhonda

So what can WE do? Who has connections? Does anyone have premade letters, email contacts for the people that need to be contacted? Ties with the ECA? Personal stories?

I am nobody... an avg customer... but this is something I also feel VERY passionate about. Enough that I want to be involved in every way I can be. I have written to news stations, suppliers, other buyers, blogs... and will continue to do so. But we need everyone doing these things.

I watch news posts, take notes, and then comment on the lows and highs. Recently I sent a huge letter to this news post:

WENY-TV News - Local News

To me it looks like they found someone that really didn't want to use the ecig in the first place to discredit the device in every way. Flaws I noticed:
- They give her the biggest ecig out there so she can say she feels like a dork in public.
- She puffs but there is no smoke (801... no smoke!?! batteries dead)
- They have her attempt to shock a bar owner (this is not a good thing to promote... personally I do not use the ecig to get around bans)
- She says things like "so now what? I suck on it I guess?" (Come on!)
- They keep talking about how it's not helping her QUIT (very important to hammer home that it is NOT a quitting device... it's a replacement).
- In the end she says it SUCKS (literally)... biased anyone?

To do a proper report on e-cigs they should invite an actual e-cig user with experience and have them teach the new user. It should be clearly stated that the device is not to help you quit. They should follow both users for a month... and ask intelligent questions like "do you feel healthier?", "what are the benefits OVER cigarettes?", "what are the drawbacks?", etc... that way you have a new users opinion (which can vary), and an experienced users opinion who actually knows what the ecig is all about, how to use it, etc.

Just my opinion.

Sorry for all of the posts... need to vent a little!

[NeHe]

Thanks so much Nehe;
For putting all of this information. I'm sure it is going to be really helpful for all of us who have to get through this.

"When I asked: "what is the status of this product, will it be approved, etc"
- I was told no supplier has sent in products to study... if a Chinese supplier is willing to submit a product, they would be more than happy to look at it."

Personally, I have 14 suppliers on my MSN list and I chat with them regularly. I am going to email each one and ask them to send a product to Health Canada. I will pay the cost if necessary.

Rhonda

I think this is a great idea, but someone should contact Health Canada to get specifics on what they need. To me it sounded as if an ecig from China was important. I'm sure they all start there, but she specifically said "if a Chinese manufacturer". I'm sure being the government and all they have a lot of special conditions that the sample(s) must meet before they are even checked.

On that same note, why can't we get Ruyan to supply the samples? I know they (ruyan) had mentioned 20 million in funding to have the research done, but if all Health Canada needs is ecigs, send them... and if more is needed, post what that MORE is!

Also, on that note, I hear MANY people state no testing has been done, but this is simply UNTRUE... From what I have read, a LOT of independant testing HAS been done on the ecigs, juice, and main juice components. Can we not put something together to debunk the govt? (send to news outlets) Or even send it with the samples to Health Canada?

[Preston Girl]

I was very suprised to read the post that the ECA wasn't involved in taking any action in Canada as I was under the impression that ALL ecig suppliers met a few weeks ago to form the association.

I agree that we need to organize in some fashion to put the pressure on "the powers that be" to make the right decision and open up the market to these devices. I too, am willing to do what I can for the cause. I'm just not sure of best or most effective way of delivering our message.

BTW, did anyone see this on Daily Planet the other day? (Just a thought, but it ran on May 5th....the day the hammer was supposed to come down in the U.S. Hmmmm, ...interesting.)

http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/daily-planet/may-2009/daily-planet-may-05-2009/#clip168932

This has to be the most level headed discussions on the product I have seen. The person being interviewed is Dr. Carl Phillips from the Univ of Alberta. He is with www.tobaccoharmreduction.org and this website is referenced many times in this and other forums.

[Nuck]

We need someone with influence in Canada that has Canadian interests in mind to front the effort. There is an MP who is currently fighting HC over other issues:

Cut ties between Health Canada, drug companies, grieving MP urges

I don't think he would want to muddle his message by adding to it, but perhaps he would know of other like-minded individuals that have also taken issue with the direction HC has taken over the last decade.

If anyone decides to start an effort to fight back, I'm willing to help in any way possible.

[puff-puff-pass]

If anyone decides to start an effort to fight back, I'm willing to help in any way possible.

Do you happen to own any "unregistered firearms?" All I have is a spear-fishing gun, and a mean "shaking fist"....and I dont think either one will be successful in the fighting!

[NeHe]

I was very suprised to read the post that the ECA wasn't involved in taking any action in Canada as I was under the impression that ALL ecig suppliers met a few weeks ago to form the association.

I agree that we need to organize in some fashion to put the pressure on "the powers that be" to make the right decision and open up the market to these devices. I too, am willing to do what I can for the cause. I'm just not sure of best or most effective way of delivering our message.

BTW, did anyone see this on Daily Planet the other day? (Just a thought, but it ran on May 5th....the day the hammer was supposed to come down in the U.S. Hmmmm, ...interesting.)

http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/daily-planet/may-2009/daily-planet-may-05-2009/#clip168932

This has to be the most level headed discussions on the product I have seen. The person being interviewed is Dr. Carl Phillips from the Univ of Alberta. He is with www.tobaccoharmreduction.org and this website is referenced many times in this and other forums.

Thank you for this link... it is VERY well done... one of the best reviews I have seen to date.

[NeHe]

This is good news... Hopefully the video is posted on their site, I'm not sure I can watch it on TV. I am impressed I received a response so quickly.


Dear Jeff,

I am writing to thank you for taking the time to express your concerns and share your success story with me.

I will be doing a follow up piece tonight on the electronic cigarette to share positive feedback regarding the e-cig with our viewers.

I will also have a link to www.e-cigarette-forum.com on our website, WENY-TV News - Home Page, so our viewers may read more testimonials.

Again, thank you for your time and concern.

Katherine Underwood

Producer / Health Reporter
WENY-TV News

[Happy Jack]

This is good news... Hopefully the video is posted on their site, I'm not sure I can watch it on TV. I am impressed I received a response so quickly.


Dear Jeff,

I am writing to thank you for taking the time to express your concerns and share your success story with me.

I will be doing a follow up piece tonight on the electronic cigarette to share positive feedback regarding the e-cig with our viewers.

I will also have a link to www.e-cigarette-forum.com on our website, WENY-TV News - Home Page, so our viewers may read more testimonials.

Again, thank you for your time and concern.

Katherine Underwood

Producer / Health Reporter
WENY-TV News

Any relation to Lacey Underall?

Edit: Ugh! That was horrible! Totally the opposite effect of the Daily Planet story. Thought it was a positive story. Sorry, definitely NO relation to our Underall...