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Vapables · 10-20-2009, 03:23 PM

Props.. I hear ya.
Sometimes I feel like collecting all those idiots up and shipping them to another planet where, they can all go live peacefully together and let the rest of us get on with our normal lives.

Nuck · 10-20-2009, 06:45 PM

How is drinking and driving in any way related to the personal freedom to indulge in a legal product in your own home?

When I was a bit younger a full 50% of the accident fatalities involved alcohol. I suspect the number is similar today. It doesn't "always" turn out to be some kid getting trashed and running off a bridge. It involves adults getting trashed and running over some 6 yr old on the sidewalk who was unlucky enough to be out playing that day.

First you use illegal hard drugs and now you turn to homicide and those silly people that try to reduce it. You really need to work on the analogies.

props76 · 10-20-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuck

How is drinking and driving in any way related to the personal freedom to indulge in a legal product in your own home?.

With all due respect, you are a bit slow on catching the similarities..

Last I checked alcohol is a legal product............

Don't even go there on 50% of accidents involve alcohol. Most accidents happen in rush hour, and bad weather, open your eyes. Most days on the way into Toronto in rush hour you will pass at least 1 fender bender. You think someone is hammered at 8am on their way to work? 3 am on the way home from the club or bar its rare to see a crash. The 50% figure is pure BS fed to you be the MADD "tell you how to live your life" type idiots.

The fact that they lie, and will tell you anything, from 50% of acidents are from drunk driver, to second hand smoke is more harmful that 1st hand, shows you how far this sort will go to try and control your life in accordance with their standards.

What is also scary is that people buy that BS.

Nuck · 10-20-2009, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by props76

With all due respect, you are a bit slow on catching the similarities..

Last I checked alcohol is a legal product............

Don't even go there on 50% of accidents involve alcohol. Most accidents happen in rush hour, and bad weather, open your eyes. Most days on the way into Toronto in rush hour you will pass at least 1 fender bender. You think someone is hammered at 8am on their way to work? 3 am on the way home from the club or bar its rare to see a crash. The 50% figure is pure BS fed to you be the MADD "tell you how to live your life" type idiots.

The fact that they lie, and will tell you anything, from 50% of acidents are from drunk driver, to second hand smoke is more harmful that 1st hand, shows you how far this sort will go to try and control your life in accordance with their standards.

What is also scary is that people buy that BS.

You desperately need a course in critical thinking. Reread my last post a bit slower:

It mentions that 50% of accident fatalities involved alcohol.

Alcohol is a legal but consuming it past the point of intoxication and then operating a motor vehicle is not. There is a reason for this..drunk drivers kill people. There is an endless supply of statistical data to support this and the laws are based on the science behind it.

I grabbed this from the Madd site to see if the stats were similar to when I was younger, given the greater awareness of the issue:

"According to Transport Canada, road crashes involving a driver who had been drinking killed 864 people in 2000. Legally impaired drivers (i.e. those with a BAC over 0.08) comprised 422 of those casualties, or almost half. A further 90 deceased drivers had a BAC of 0.08 or lower."

I found these when trying to get the exact numbers:

"More recently it has been reported that alcohol contributes to nearly 30 percent of all Canadian traffic fatalities and 44 percent of traffic fatalities in the United States. [2]"

Driving under the influence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I checked one of the sources and it was the Toronto Star Jun/07 so it's pretty recent.

Now the real issue is the freedom to indulge a legal product in your own home that has no evidence that it affects those in attached living units. If studies prove that there is quantifiable harm being done to others, then the law would be logical. Without those studies the law becomes invasive and should be contested by all Canadians, not just smokers.

I look forward to your next post involving some other criminal activity.

props76 · 10-21-2009, 12:52 AM

Again you miss the point.

Drinking and Driving is not illegal.. Yup read that one again...

Being drunk and driving and driving is.. No one in their right mind is in favor of some guy 100x over the limit killing people. But we already have laws in the books to deal with that.

The problem we have is when someone comes along, and takes something that is not a problem, drinking a reasonable amount and driving and making it a problem.

That's the same as the no smoking in appartments bs. Taking something that isn't a problem, making it one, so they can tell you what is right to do.

Nuck · 10-21-2009, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by props76

Again you miss the point.

Drinking and Driving is not illegal.. Yup read that one again...

Being drunk and driving and driving is.. No one in their right mind is in favor of some guy 100x over the limit killing people. But we already have laws in the books to deal with that.

The problem we have is when someone comes along, and takes something that is not a problem, drinking a reasonable amount and driving and making it a problem.

That's the same as the no smoking in appartments bs. Taking something that isn't a problem, making it one, so they can tell you what is right to do.

Ok..I'm out.

nojoyet · 10-21-2009, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SquirrilahFish

dont you guys have heroin clinics?

Hi Squirrel

Just a little off topic!

If you're interested in learning about harm reduction strategies in Canada regarding those issues have a look at
http://vancouver.ca/fourpillars/acrossCanada.htm

or Google

lxor · 10-27-2009, 04:25 PM

What do the politicians you elect do year after year? They create laws. To admit the laws are unnecessary/burdensome is to admit the politician is unnecessary, and most of them would rather die than admit this. They feel far to important, there are careers to consider, and many are far to untalented to venture into the private sector.

I'm not even going to discuss bureaucrats, but quite a bit could be said about their motivations.

Don't want smoking in your building? Fine, declare this before people move in

Democracy does not equate to freedom.

CBWPowder · 10-30-2009, 02:51 PM

Okay just wanted to jump in and make a quick point on the drinking and driving thing and then will go onto the e-cig ban.

Several years ago i got pissed off at MADD and their ****. I started looking into alcohol and trafiic fatalities. Did some digging and found documents online from Stats Canada. They are gone now or impossible to find because it's impossible to find anything on Stats Canada's website. Back on point. These documnets tracked blood alcohol levels in accidents causing fatalities. Now I don't have the numbers anymore but in the majority of these accidents, around 85%, the blood alcohol level was over 3 times the legal limit of .08. Meaning these people were blasted. Not just over the legal limit but at the point of passing out.

Now back to the e-cig ban by Health Canada. When I first started looking into e-cigs about a month ago i did alot of research. Found some extensive research done in NewZealand that was very interesting and informative and also came across the Heath Canada thing. So I wondered what Heath Canada had found that the scientists in NZ hadn't. Couldn't find any Health Canada finds online so I decided to call them. Spoke to several people and finally found out that Health Canada has done zero research on e-cigs and has no intention of looking into them until someone spends the money to apply to them to import/sell them legally in Canada. What the hell is Health Canada there for? Why are they not looking into this? and why would the ban them if they know nothing about them? These are the questions I want answered so I ask the same thing of my local MP. I am waiting fr a response and suggest everyone here do the same.

Sorry about the long post it just pisses me off and when I'm pissed I rant. Happy vaping to everyone and i can't wait until i get my starter kit.

Canadian1 · 11-07-2009, 04:03 AM

I had to reply to this,

Drinking kills, this we know. It kills drinkers, drivers, and bystanders. Pretty simple mathmatics. Smoking kills, smokers over time, bystanders over time. Pretty simple mathmatics. E-smoking, does nicotine kill? I have no idea, no math to prove that point. Does PG kill? I have no idea, no math to prove that point. Does banning a process/substance work? Nope, look at the drug war that we've been losing for 25 years. Do studies work? Depends who funds them. Do I believe E-smoking is better for me? Yes I do. Who should you trust? That's completely up to you...

11-07-2009, 04:03 AM	#20
Canadian1 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3	About subject I had to reply to this, Drinking kills, this we know. It kills drinkers, drivers, and bystanders. Pretty simple mathmatics. Smoking kills, smokers over time, bystanders over time. Pretty simple mathmatics. E-smoking, does nicotine kill? I have no idea, no math to prove that point. Does PG kill? I have no idea, no math to prove that point. Does banning a process/substance work? Nope, look at the drug war that we've been losing for 25 years. Do studies work? Depends who funds them. Do I believe E-smoking is better for me? Yes I do. Who should you trust? That's completely up to you...

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10-20-2009, 03:23 PM	#11
Vapables CAN Supplier Join Date: May 2009 Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada Posts: 58 Tweet this post!	Props.. I hear ya. Sometimes I feel like collecting all those idiots up and shipping them to another planet where, they can all go live peacefully together and let the rest of us get on with our normal lives.

10-20-2009, 06:45 PM	#12
Nuck ECF Veteran Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,073 Tweet this post!	How is drinking and driving in any way related to the personal freedom to indulge in a legal product in your own home? When I was a bit younger a full 50% of the accident fatalities involved alcohol. I suspect the number is similar today. It doesn't "always" turn out to be some kid getting trashed and running off a bridge. It involves adults getting trashed and running over some 6 yr old on the sidewalk who was unlucky enough to be out playing that day. First you use illegal hard drugs and now you turn to homicide and those silly people that try to reduce it. You really need to work on the analogies.

10-21-2009, 12:52 AM	#15
props76 Moved On Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 257	Again you miss the point. Drinking and Driving is not illegal.. Yup read that one again... Being drunk and driving and driving is.. No one in their right mind is in favor of some guy 100x over the limit killing people. But we already have laws in the books to deal with that. The problem we have is when someone comes along, and takes something that is not a problem, drinking a reasonable amount and driving and making it a problem. That's the same as the no smoking in appartments bs. Taking something that isn't a problem, making it one, so they can tell you what is right to do.

10-27-2009, 04:25 PM	#18
lxor Full Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 10	What do the politicians you elect do year after year? They create laws. To admit the laws are unnecessary/burdensome is to admit the politician is unnecessary, and most of them would rather die than admit this. They feel far to important, there are careers to consider, and many are far to untalented to venture into the private sector. I'm not even going to discuss bureaucrats, but quite a bit could be said about their motivations. Don't want smoking in your building? Fine, declare this before people move in Democracy does not equate to freedom.

10-30-2009, 02:51 PM	#19
CBWPowder Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 7	Okay just wanted to jump in and make a quick point on the drinking and driving thing and then will go onto the e-cig ban. Several years ago i got pissed off at MADD and their ****. I started looking into alcohol and trafiic fatalities. Did some digging and found documents online from Stats Canada. They are gone now or impossible to find because it's impossible to find anything on Stats Canada's website. Back on point. These documnets tracked blood alcohol levels in accidents causing fatalities. Now I don't have the numbers anymore but in the majority of these accidents, around 85%, the blood alcohol level was over 3 times the legal limit of .08. Meaning these people were blasted. Not just over the legal limit but at the point of passing out. Now back to the e-cig ban by Health Canada. When I first started looking into e-cigs about a month ago i did alot of research. Found some extensive research done in NewZealand that was very interesting and informative and also came across the Heath Canada thing. So I wondered what Heath Canada had found that the scientists in NZ hadn't. Couldn't find any Health Canada finds online so I decided to call them. Spoke to several people and finally found out that Health Canada has done zero research on e-cigs and has no intention of looking into them until someone spends the money to apply to them to import/sell them legally in Canada. What the hell is Health Canada there for? Why are they not looking into this? and why would the ban them if they know nothing about them? These are the questions I want answered so I ask the same thing of my local MP. I am waiting fr a response and suggest everyone here do the same. Sorry about the long post it just pisses me off and when I'm pissed I rant. Happy vaping to everyone and i can't wait until i get my starter kit.