Praise for the Greenworld cartomizers from Nhaler.com

**wegster** · 05-27-2009, 04:21 AM

I do have *one* 'random thought' on this not stated. Weren't the original E9s limited by the battery to a 3 second or so draw?

Is it possible at 3 seconds, the burning doesn't occur, but as everyone has 'pushed' for removal or increases on the time before cutoff, the batteries were changed, but the carts perhaps not 'upgraded' enough for the longer draw/atomizer on times?

**wegster** · 05-27-2009, 07:28 AM

So, a 'little birdie' gave me some information. It doesn't seem to entirely refute my last post, about the on time of the attys (which I believe were originally low, like 2-3 seconds, original RD and LTs, no?), but it's not conclusive...all I can say is this little birdie has done some prior investigation, and has talked to the manufacturer. If any other 'little birdie might like to privately share some information, feel free to IM or email me, and you can ask that your name is not attached to it.

NOTE - lest this thread be taken the wrong way, none of this (at least my postings, and later additional pics, etc) is about attacking any vendor, nor trying to drive away anyone's sales. Like those of you trying to find the ultimate atty cleaner, or the perfect poly wick replacement, this is simply about finding out what 'is,' what works, and what does not. Maybe this will result in us determining this 'burnt wick' is harmless, or no worse than the inner wick for the 3 piece standard atomizers, which does seem to start to burn (although not *through*/entirely..?), or maybe it'll wind up resulting in a change to the way the cartomizers are manufactured, or filled. Dunno, but felt that should be said, regardless. We all want 'a good e-cig,' preferably one that *is* 'healthier,' right? :-)

So, back to the little birdie. Said birdie believes, and has apparently had confirmation:
- all carts are made by a single manufacturer or production line, at least for the KR808D-1 units (including 'clones,' derivatives, what have you), regardless of where they are sold to or through.
- Their atomizers are designed to heat to no more than ~250*C. That doesn't necessarily tell us that they never exceed this, nor that it's even what the 'expected operating temperature is,' but it's some data, anyways. More would be greatly appreciated. :-)
- Not sure what the inner wick (the smaller square in the melted pics) is made of, but it obviously has a lower melting point. If kept wet, that point is higher.
- The cart inconsistency - pretty much everyone's noticed it, and Drew's said it as well as indirectly, with his way to 'revive them' by dropping a few drops of distilled water inside them and let them sit for a bit. When they run 'dry,' they are not necessarily *dry*, but they are not wicking to the coil effectively at that point. They are also filled by hand/could use some QC.

End of little birdy info. :-)

So, it doesn't really tell us 'all we need to know,' but...my idea currently remains as - originally it was designed with a low cutoff time on the atomizer, the 2-3 seconds. With a *properly* filled cart, and *not* refilling it, perhaps it's possible for the cart to go 'dry enough to notice the drop-off,' but not to the point of burning. Recall also most instructions say to effectively 'use it like an analog,' which means- take a dozen puffs, set down for 30-180 minutes, then repeat.

Enter it became popular - I don't *know* for certain how the battery on times have increased, or that anything was *designed* for that longer duration. I'd wager it's a simple matter of setting a few bits on the battery's mini controller, though, and that was done at request of a larger vendor initially, then 'copied' for everyone else that wanted better throat hit, more vapor, etc. Which is fine, maybe it degrades the battery longevity slightly, or not..but I think the carts weren't significantly updated to handle the on times, nor frequency with which many of us are vaping. The wicking system also may not be able to keep up with the more 'constant vaping' many of us do..so it's 'outside the design' in a way.

Does anyone have an RD/e9/early KR with a shorter battery cutoff, or that wants to help test this theory? Have a better one? I'm sure many of us are all ears..I really *like* the idea of the 2 piece, just have doubts about the implementation under 'regular use from regular people using it.'

**Viper** · 05-27-2009, 10:52 AM

This was shared to me by a supplier, who prefers to remain anonymous. It is from an FDA warning letter received three days ago.

"Furthermore, the electro-mechanical characteristics described for the nicotine/flavor cartridge delivery system actually raise safety and efficacy concerns. One important consideration when developing electro-mechanical products for oral delivery is the aerodynamic particle or droplet size of airborne byproducts and deposits due to aerosolization and vaporization. Particles or ancillary materials contained in droplets that are aerodynamically smaller than 5 microns can be inhaled into the lungs, and pulmonary inhalation of products intended for oral delivery may have potential safety concerns. Furthermore, the aerodynamic characteristics of the formulations and byproducts generated by the delivery system should be such that the drug product will be retained in the oral cavity. If the product is not retained in the oral cavity, efficacy of the drug and safety could be an issue.

As explained above, the claims made for your oral inhalation compounded drug delivery products branded under the name XXXXXXXXXXXXX are false or misleading under section 502(a) of the FDCA. Additionally, these claims cause your drugs and delivery devices to be misbranded under sections 502(a) and 502(f)(1) of the FDCA.

B. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Aerosolizing Devices

We also note that our records contain no evidence of clearance or approval of the electronic cigarette aerosolizing devices, either as a device on its own under sections 510(k) or 515(a) of the FDCA or as a constituent part of a combination product. Absent either clearance or approval, your product is in violation of the FDCA and should not be marketed. Please contact Mr. Michael Husband in FDA's Center for Devices and Radiological Health, Anesthesiology Devices Branch at 240-276-3775 for marketing requirements of the delivery system (medical device alone) for general use with drugs already approved for these indications and route of delivery. The CDRH website link for general information is (edited out http and www to allow url) fda.gov/cdrh/devadvice/."

**Peaches** · 05-27-2009, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by wegster

@Edo (and Drew) Maybe greencig carts *are* looking like a better idea? :-)

I believe Wegster is 100% right that the greencig carts are a better design/idea for our two piece units.

Drew was kind enough to send me a gift of two of the greencig cartomizers which I have refilled and used for the past few days. I dissected one of the carts and there is much better insulation for the cart polyester material. The polyester was in a plastic tubing and wasn't the least bit "burnt". I actually washed it off and it showed no signs of degradation or burning.

These greencig cartomizers will be my go to cart from now on. Way to go Drew on introducting us an improved cartomizer.

How healthy can it be with the other three piece units to use atomizers that are filled with "gunk"?

I am just a satisfied customer of Drew's and am not affiliated with his business (NHALER.com) nor do I receive compensation of any kind aside from the nice gifts added to my order.

**dougp925** · 05-27-2009, 02:59 PM

Interesting, is anyone else using "Greencig" carts who can agree with Peaches? Are these truly the better cartomizers which do not burn?

PS - Wegster, you may be on to something with the cutoff time being increased without improving the cart design. It seems logical.

**RsL** · 05-27-2009, 04:13 PM

Drew, can you give us some more info on the greencig carts you sell ? I'm assuming that these are compatible with KR808D-1 units ?? Thx

**wegster** · 05-27-2009, 05:05 PM

Hi Drew,

What was this part in response to?

Just to clarify...Wegs thats a DROP, more than that and it basically kills the flavor...

@thread
Drew was nice enough to send me a single greencig cart along with a recent order. They're longer that the KR808D-1 carts by approximately 1cm, and do fit the KR808D-1.
Taste is different that the KR... carts, not offensively so.

**RsL** · 05-27-2009, 05:14 PM

Drew,

It just dawned on me that I probably shouldn't have asked you that question outside of the supplier forum. My bad. If I have further questions I will PM you. Maybe you should modify your post to 'Contact me via PM for details.' I don't want you to get in trouble with the moderators. Or maybe I am misunderstanding the suppliers rules on posting....

Now back to the main subject....

**dougp925** · 05-27-2009, 05:33 PM

Drew, I agree with what your saying except for the fact that I had defective carts. I don't think they were defective. Only one gave me the nasty burning taste after 12 puffs. The others tasted great but when I opened them for science, I found that after 20 puffs they too were burnt(not as badly though), but never tasted bad or vaped poorlly in any way. I think a bunch of people are experiencing this also thats why I wanted more prople to open them. Unless you open one thats seems perfectly fine, you'll never really know. I am however, very curious about the green cigs you carry. I'm hoping they are the solution to this issue. I know a few people who really want to use the 2-peice design. If the green cig carts are impervious to burning, you might want to stock up on them.......