Any Plastics connections out there?

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

I have an idea that's been baking in the back of my brain for a mod on a cartridge, but while I have the creative thinking skills to come up with something very feasable, I don't have the drafting or hands on skills to make this a reality.

So..... is there anyone out there who have specialties in molded plastics? The mod I'm thinking of is a 2ml bottle suspended inside the cart chamber with a control to be able to drip onto the atty without taking the thing apart every 2 drops.

Collaborations????

[ISAWHIM]

Sounds more like a design issue, as opposed to a material issue. From the information you provided.

Let me see if I understand this correctly...

You are looking for a 2ml container, as opposed to a 2ml cup with wadding. This container having a mechanical or electrical device which physically moves a drop onto the vaporizer coil/pad.

Here are the possible issues, in the most simple outline, as I understand it...

For liquid to exit the container, air must be able to get inside, unless the container can collapse. (Such as a soft plastic container would allow, like a tooth-paste tube.)

For air to enter, which would not be that hard to manage, you would need a valve of some kind. (Having any hole, other than the one which the liquid is ejected, would cause all the fluid to drain.)

Having a valve to open/close while the fluid ejects, is a lot more complex than it sounds. By design, it is simple. By long-term manufacturing stability through daily use, it is difficult. (Economically, something of that precise of a design, which had near zero failure rate, would be a little costly. This would be fine, if the cartridge were a permanent structure which could be cleaned and thus, used for the life of the device.)

On a plastic level... The government does not like to use plastic containers for more than a year. After a year, all sorts of break-down related to chemical degradation can occur. CO2 interaction and UV and bacterial interactions will rapidly degrade any food-safe plastics.

Glass would be the most ideal alternative, but has obvious issues related to the mechanics of the design.

Metals are possible, but FDA does not like metal food storage. The one year rule might be extended to a three year rule, with the use of expensive processing of the metals with exotic food-safe electroplating.

A mixture of a glass chamber "U" shape, with a plastic dispenser tip, may be the most viable solution. The tips could be disposed after time, while the glass would severely reduce plastic contact exposure. (You could get less exposure if you fastened a glass disk/washer to the plastic side, on the inner part of the tip.)

For the mechanical ejection device, a simple rod or pole would suffice as a liquid plunger, which could also control the air-intake valve. The valve is still needed, so the liquid does not drip out freely. (The valve may be bypassed if a micro-filter insert was used. Air could pass freely into the cartridge, but liquid could not freely drip out, as long as nothing touched the filter. Like touching the bottom side of many umbrellas will pull all the water through the surface.)

Operation of the manual rod or pole plunger, would most-likely have to be done from the outside. This can be done with a "U" shaped plunger. One side would be shorter, while the longer side would extend out past the cap, and have a physical connection to something which can push and pull it. (This could be attached to an air-plunger, and also to the coil activation switch. Using the draw-air to operate the small motion required to eject a 0.02ml squirt onto the coil.)

Mechanical parts are usually not that fun to have, or deal with. But in this case, with minimal parts, it may be an exception. The cost for the long-use pure liquid cartridge, which would reduce break-down refilling, and use-life... might be more than worth it. (I imagine our land-fills would appreciate having a lot less plastic and nicotine in them.)

Just so you are aware... It costs around $60,000.00 to have an iso-certified single ejection, bubbler injection molding mold, designed for a 150-Ton press, manufactured in most places. That is a rather simple design, with only two prototype molds made, and does not include the remanufacture of a new mold, when the mold has become unusable after a few million runs.

However, that mold would easily hold a 8 piece runner, without the need for a hot-runner. Since the parts are internal, the only important issues would be with the plunger hole and the connection ring. (If this was to use the "U" glass container with only the plastic tip and plunger.)

The glass, I am sure could be easily manufactured, if it did not already exist. (I am sure they do, as mini-test-tubes.)

The plunger could be a simple steel rod, that was coated and bent into a "U" or "J" shape.

The plunger activation contact could be a simple snap-on or heat-staked scrap of flat plastic, which could be on the same runner which made the top.

I imagine a wick feeding directly from the tip to the coil-mesh would still be needed, but a little modding to an existing coil-setup would suffice.

I say it is possible. Within a reasonable price.

"Dymotek" plastics. Previously they were called "Truebro injection molding". We made microscopic heart valve gears... so anything is possible there. (All ISO certified. I was one of the leads, and testing technicians.)

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

Let me try to detail what I've been thinking about.....

a small, 2ml softish silicone bottle with a micro hole to allow liquid to drain and/or allow the user to refill via syringe. To be designed with 4 concentric depressions along the body of the bottle to allow airflow and vapor to pass.

The mouthpiece would be fully rotatable, with a cog attached to a center pin, with airflow holes again to allow airflow.

This cog would operate 2 small arms riding along the side of the resivoir bottle. Once you turned the mouthpiece, the arms would squeeze the bottle, allowing for a drop of liquid to fall to the atty.

The bottle would have to be soft, but silicone can withstand higher temps in some applications, so overheating and burning of the resivoir would not be an issue.

as there is no other airflow going into the bottle, the liquid would stay in the bottle until the squeezing forced a drop out.

Can you visualize something like this? The only thing I have to draw with on my computer is paint (Ewwwww) - so I have to rely on words to describe what I'm seeing......

Feedback, please?

[ISAWHIM]

I forgot to mention...

Doing a pump, which delivered a specific volume per drag, would also require a new controller circuit to operate the vaporizer element.

Since there is no flow, only a set volume, the element could not just stay on the entire time. It would have to turn off after a set time, when that volume of fluid would have been burned off. Simple timing would work, but would not be ideal. Since battery voltage and liquid volume are not constant.

Actually, what all these devices need is a thermocouple to sense when the heat is excessive, and turn the element off, or reduce the voltage. If it is dry, it will heat fast and get over 800C. If it has moisture on it, the temperature will be more around 100C to 200C. The vaporizing moisture will carry most of the heat away. Dry air will not cool down a hot element, no matter how hard you suck.

If the voltage halved at the point of 100C, that should bring the temp to around 150C, which would halve it again, and ultimately end-up at 180C while wet. If the temp rises above 300C, it would just turn off, since it has obviously vaped all the liquid.

A simple "Atmel" micro-controller, 8-bit AtTiny10 would suffice. That is a 6-leg surface-mount microchip computer. Even a simple pulse reading could determine the approximate temperature from the heated coil, without the use of an actual temperature sensor. (The resistance increases as the temperature rises. Roughly, it will double resistance after 200C. So a cold coil with a resistance of 300MOhm would be 600MOhms when it was at the desired temperature. Since this would be a pulse-charge, the OFF state could be used to measure the running resistance of the heated coil.)

It could also detect a burnt-out coil, or one that is shorted.

It could also monitor your puff-length, and adjust the vapor-length to be more balanced across the puff, as opposed to one quick blast at the beginning, followed by turning off once vaporizing the small volume. (That could also allow you to adjust the volume, without need for any reprogramming, just lengthen the rod adjustment by sliding the suction pad further away.)

[ISAWHIM]

I see what you are saying now... but after liquid comes out, air has to go in, to replace the missing liquid volume. (That makes squeezing from the outside impossible once the bottle is half empty, as half the bottle is air, which will just compress before it has enough compression to push out any liquid. If you just eject liquid, and no air enters, you create a vacuum, which will not allow liquid to escape.)

If the bottle collapsed like a tooth-paste bottle, no air would be inside the bottle, the bottle would just collapse as the liquid was ejected. You could then use the twisting method you detailed, to push a mini-roller down the tube, mm by mm, squeezing out liquid as desired. (Easily refillable from the same hole it exits, with a shunted needle.)

That container would require blow-molding, which is a little different of a process. (That is how they make soda bottles and many collapsible tubes.)

Instead of a cog, you could use a screw design, which would push the rollers down, as the device was turned, while the mouth-piece stays stationary between your teeth.

A clicker would have to be used, to let you count the dose you are shooting, or to limit the turning, until the device was puffed. (EG, it would have to be turned, to inject, and then puffed to unlock the next turn. Like a simple click-lock switch, as you would find on an older computer power button. EG, you could click up to 5 times, or as few as 1. After 5, you would have to puff to click five more times. Since there would be too much liquid after 5, but you may only want a few mild short puffs, not one heavy throat-bomb.)

Without the tube collapsing, you would need an internal straw/wick to draw the liquid up from the bottom of the container, to the higher jet. (That is what I was trying to say, was the complex inner part.)

With a collapse tube... you don't need a wick, as there is no air inside.

[Jaaxx]

This topic has come up many times here. For some reason, every time I come across it, I can't help but picture a hamster water bottle. Dunno why.

Jaaxx

[surbitonPete]

Wow Isawim.....you have 'really' put a lot of thought into the idea .....loved your clear and detailed explanations.

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

I see what you are saying now... but after liquid comes out, air has to go in, to replace the missing liquid volume. (That makes squeezing from the outside impossible once the bottle is half empty, as half the bottle is air, which will just compress before it has enough compression to push out any liquid. If you just eject liquid, and no air enters, you create a vacuum, which will not allow liquid to escape.)

a medicine dropper (or the droppers in some of our bottles) you squeeze the rubber top, and a drip or 2 come out. You let go of the rubber top, air comes into the tube, and once equilibrium has been achieved, no liquid drips out until you compress the rubber top again. In theory, the same should work with a cart design, using armature instead of your fingers to compress...
I do agree that the start up costs would be high, blow molding dies aren't cheap. I was hoping that something existing could be modified.

This topic has come up many times here. For some reason, every time I come across it, I can't help but picture a hamster water bottle. Dunno why.

That could be a mod, too. Small bottle, hard plastic, small steel ball blocking the exit point. A wick extending up from the atomizer wicking, and spring load the mouthpiece to push the cart down to the wick, thus shifting the ball and releasing the liquid.

The spring would have to have a locking mechanism, though, to avoid inadverdent liquid release and atty flooding.

[Skad]

Originally Posted by ISAWHIM

Metals are possible, but FDA does not like metal food storage. The one year rule might be extended to a three year rule, with the use of expensive processing of the metals with exotic food-safe electroplating.

I gotta call you on on this one.

Food comes in metal cans, and considering the price of a can of corn, I don't think the metals used there are hugely expensive. Food is stored in restaurants all the time in large metal trays, and no one has an issue with that.

[exogenesis]

Food/drink cans are plastic coated on the inside surface these days.