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Thread: Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

  1. #1631
    Senior Member Jaime Bates's Avatar
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    Ok so I need some help here a friend of mine built my first coil and I did fine on the second one but now so much kanthal later I can't get it right I want 1.5 ohms for a protank 2 with cotton wicking how many wraps on what?
    I tried a 1/16th drill bit please help. Im using 28gauge kanthal
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    Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

    This is a great calculator. It is very close to dead on accurate. Everyone tensions a little differently and may tension differently from build session to session, so, it is not always technically accurate but it is so close. Use this calculator and MacTec's advice for the treatment of your metal, you won't go wrong. I have rarely achieved the perfection seen in MacTec's pictures but I use his technique. Using his advice, my coils improved in performance and reliability - improved dramatically. A few tries and an occasional mistake, you will have it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jaime Bates View Post
    Ok so I need some help here a friend of mine built my first coil and I did fine on the second one but now so much kanthal later I can't get it right I want 1.5 ohms for a protank 2 with cotton wicking how many wraps on what?
    I tried a 1/16th drill bit please help. Im using 28gauge kanthal
    To live as I choose is neither selfish nor immature; to demand that others live as I choose is both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaime Bates View Post
    Ok so I need some help here a friend of mine built my first coil and I did fine on the second one but now so much kanthal later I can't get it right I want 1.5 ohms for a protank 2 with cotton wicking how many wraps on what?
    I tried a 1/16th drill bit please help. Im using 28gauge kanthal
    Well IMHO you need to use 32 gauge and not 28. Just too many wraps and too big to get there. I rebuild all my kanger atomizers with 32. 28 I use for the RBAs since you have a lot more room to work with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaime Bates View Post
    Ok so I need some help here a friend of mine built my first coil and I did fine on the second one but now so much kanthal later I can't get it right I want 1.5 ohms for a protank 2 with cotton wicking how many wraps on what?
    I tried a 1/16th drill bit please help. Im using 28gauge kanthal
    About 10 wraps on the 1/16 drill bit with 28. I think 1.8 to 2 ohms is more efficient and performs better on a pt. 12 wraps of 28 is a real tight fit in a pt though.

    I find the ideal set up for me is the largest diameter drill bit ot screwdriver that would fit in the slots( 1.8 to 2.0 mm ), and ten wraps of 29 g kanthal.

    Good Luck !
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaime Bates View Post
    Ok so I need some help here a friend of mine built my first coil and I did fine on the second one but now so much kanthal later I can't get it right I want 1.5 ohms for a protank 2 with cotton wicking how many wraps on what?
    I tried a 1/16th drill bit please help. Im using 28gauge kanthal
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazinny View Post
    About 10 wraps on the 1/16 drill bit with 28. I think 1.8 to 2 ohms is more efficient and performs better on a pt. 12 wraps of 28 is a real tight fit in a pt though.

    I find the ideal set up for me is the largest diameter drill bit ot screwdriver that would fit in the slots( 1.8 to 2.0 mm ), and ten wraps of 29 g kanthal.

    Good Luck !
    Jaime, agree with maz completely. The zone 1.8-2.0Ω is the performance optimal for the KPT, the sweet spot and rock solid center. You can hit it with 32 AWG but too few wraps to make the build an effective performer. AWG 29 will give you the contact surface area necessary to make the best advantage of power and minimize the risk of lateral short of that coil in operation which is always a possibility with any 12-turn in this small space. I think you're going to be thrilled with the result. I would urge you also to consider trying both KGD (Japanese cotton) and Nextel ceramic wick in that wind. Both providing outstanding flavor but Nextel having exceptional durability and flow capabilities in the Protank especially if you're looking to apply variable power.

    Good luck and hail us on this thread any time.


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    Default Re: More tension, less fiddly...

    Quote Originally Posted by muzichead View Post
    Its all good Mac, I took a stab at trying to rebuild a few of those about a year ago and lets just say "MAJOR FAILURE" would be putting it mildly... I do love it in my micro coils though.
    Quote Originally Posted by RIMP View Post
    I just bought some 2mm. Gonna try rebuilding on my Protanks and Aerotank bases. Do you always put the extra pieces of readywick in the bases around where the coil is?
    Sorry to hear that muzic. The tighter the design the more critical the build geometry must be and it's not always intuitive. It doesn't help that the consumer tank makers are constantly playin' with the pieces to my mind for the sole purpose of deterring rebuilding (protecting consumables sales). I know I'm not the only one having arrived at this suspicion witness Rip T's and others bashing of the flurry of design changes since last year. Most hide the dismal state of the circuitry.

    RIMP I gave the fellow credit for encouraging me to revise the testing on channel wicks (on the Protank Cotton thread). And I use it on occasion. Basically its not a catch all, no. Leaking past the base threading I believe is inherent to the design (tolerance limitations in threading and the vacuum changes with heat variation of the tanks contents). So we all suffer the 510. It's more of a if it works use it option and expensive with Nextel (except I recycle my wicks for this). The answer to my view is to focus really well on attaining wind symmetry as you wind and assemble. By perfect I mean ditch the bad ones. Really. Don't accept anything less than perfect particularly when you spin up one in seconds and do another. Why? The more perfect the adhesion at pulsing the closer to absolute efficiency you get out of them. The better they vaporize; the less they flood. Period. The tighter that coil (and it's consistent tension not too much of it) the less likely it is to distort in assembly or to show you clearly [if you do, skew] during the process. Raking which super_X_drifter discovered of tension coils is more apt to cause a tight wind to snap back into it's originally tensioned state. So it all benefits the vape to just be carefully consistent. Be the coil I say.

    We can spend a whole lot of time on fiddly with our devices, whatever they are; but if you get the basic right it cures a host of ills.

    THAT MY FRIENDS IS WHY I DO WHAT I DO. I'm a lazy mofo, I'm tellin' ya. Hate to struggle or see others have to.

    Good luck.

    Last edited by MacTechVpr; 08-23-2014 at 08:37 PM.
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  7. #1637
    Senior Member Jaime Bates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacTechVpr View Post
    Jaime, agree with maz completely. The zone 1.8-2.0Ω is the performance optimal for the KPT, the sweet spot and rock solid center. You can hit it with 32 AWG but too few wraps to make the build an effective performer. AWG 29 will give you the contact surface area necessary to make the best advantage of power and minimize the risk of lateral short of that coil in operation which is always a possibility with any 12-turn in this small space. I think you're going to be thrilled with the result. I would urge you also to consider trying both KGD (Japanese cotton) and Nextel ceramic wick in that wind. Both providing outstanding flavor but Nextel having exceptional durability and flow capabilities in the Protank especially if you're looking to apply variable power.

    Good luck and hail us on this thread any time.

    I built a 1.3 coil with 28gauge on 1/16th 9-10 wraps perfect run ibt in my pt2 no problem in the bf smok tech tank. I use with the MVP im running it about 4.2 great flavor and vapor can't complain. I just dont wanna have to buy more kanthal right now. Bevause I have 100ft of 28gauge it was cheap but still dont want to have to buy more.

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    Default Jaime's 1.359Ω, 10-turn, 28 AWG on 1/16"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaime Bates View Post
    I built a 1.3 coil with 28gauge on 1/16th 9-10 wraps perfect run ibt in my pt2 no problem in the bf smok tech tank. I use with the MVP im running it about 4.2 great flavor and vapor can't complain. I just dont wanna have to buy more kanthal right now. Bevause I have 100ft of 28gauge it was cheap but still dont want to have to buy more.
    If that was your first tension wind awesome good job. I double checked your results against my own charts along with...

    Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators
    and on...Coil Toy - Online calculator for e-cigarette resistance coil building

    That's a pretty tight wind if you wound 10-over-9.

    No, for sure use the 28 if a little bit warm. You got it on a spool. That's good.

    Would love to know your source, if TEMCO or an alt.

    Best of luck to you jaime.

    Last edited by MacTechVpr; 08-24-2014 at 12:14 PM. Reason: Rev'd Steam Engine input parameters!
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    Default Steam Engine and Jaime's 1.359Ω, 10-turn, 28 AWG on 1/16"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaime Bates View Post
    I built a 1.3 coil with 28gauge on 1/16th...
    Had to go back and refine the input parameters on Steam Engine to proof your build and it now reflects the accurate theoreticals for your build. That's to say the wind characteristics that equal the wire length equivalent to your 10-turn build design…

    Diameter of wire = 28 AWG
    Wire resistance = 0.0172 (Ω) (per mm, computed per appl., 0.0172 actual, 0.01726555538083)
    Target resistance = 1.359 (Ω)
    Inner diameter of coil = 1.58 (mm) (rounded from 1.5825 mm imported)
    Leg length (total) = 16 (assumed, MacTechVpr. See Resistance Tables)
    Wrap spacing = 0


    Good morning Jaime. An explanation for the above and other users.

    I last night proofed your build on Steam Engine. That's to say determine if your wind spec's conformed to what the theoretical or measured length should be and it's resulting calculated resistance.

    First, I make one significant assumption…that PT1/PT2 coil builds have a nominal lead (leg) length of ~16.0 mm (for both leads). This is based on the actual measurement of hundreds of coils over the period of one year. As time went be this tightened down from a figure of 16.25 mm I had been using for proofing. Doesn't seem like much but enough to make a measurable result.

    Second assumption is that your wrapped a contact coil of some kind, by tension or forming.

    What are the above numbers? They are the inputs you make into Steam Engine to describe your build.

    (BTW, if you check the actual text of the link, you will find those values there. When you click on the link these numbers are imported directly into SE and used in the output you see. You can save bookmarks of your builds based on input values. Create folders say Protank, with appropriate descriptions 10-Turn 28, etc. for reference if/when you need it.)

    The way to use Steam Engine is to enter these parameters over the default 30 AWG except for Target resistance. Leave that for last.

    When you complete the entries you will note that the target resistance of 1.8Ω remains unchanged!

    In this case, your wind, you separately metered or got 1.3Ω off your carto-meter or variable. You input that value into Target resistance. The resulting number of wrap required as per the program's calculation would equal 8.09Ω. The hell you say! True that though. Your exact resistance was not 1.3Ω. It was 1.359Ω worth of wire that you actually used. That is the theoretical wire length…and actual in this instance. Resistance is proportional to wire length. And we know how much wire you used pretty accurately.

    That's the fiddly part of using one of these app's...you must be the one to narrow down the number to match the wire. Once you do you will know the precise resistance of your build.

    I found this is helpful for all vapers. If we know what our build's equal in resistance we can target temperature as we become familiar with what to expect from different resistance levels.

    Even though I haven't verified your build (wound it myself) I'm going to be adding this one to the published tables meantime as it's a good signpost.

    To know what you're in for then if you drop down to 8-wraps on a Protank…lower the target resistance a half-Ω or more.

    Now this is where this information becomes really useful, if you can establish your theoretical resistance in advance, you may deduce if you're shorting when you build, to the low or high side of the theoretical. This is very useful for safety reasons but also for helping to diagnose where you are going wrong with your build. There are substantial notes on this thread as to how those high and low variations occur.

    I hope this info on how SE works and may be used is helpful to some of you. It can be a bit confusing if you don't know how or what it's doing with certain numbers.

    I'm sure it must be baffling to new and inexperienced builders trying to use it to figure out what number of turns to wind. You really have to know what the approximate resistance of a wind is going to be. And that it is a factor of the math relationships of wire length and resistance. A road map is helpful to begin with. And that is the purpose of the basic resistance tables I've contributed here. From there you can fill in the spaces in-between with your very own imagination and tastes.

    Good luck all.

    Last edited by MacTechVpr; 08-24-2014 at 01:23 PM.

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    Default Protank Contact (micro) Coil Resistance Tables

    Here is a sum-up of the most pertinent validations I have made for KPT (addendum in bold) for your vaping pleasure…

    32AWG, 7/6 1.75mm i.d. m.c. = 2.2Ω √
    32AWG, 5/4 2mm i.d., loose m.c. = 1.85Ω √
    30AWG, 11/10 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. =2.35Ω √
    30AWG, 11/10 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.1Ω √
    30AWG, 11/10 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.1Ω √ #292 MrOcelot
    30AWG, 11/10, 1.2mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.8Ω √#601 Christopherja
    30AWG, 10/9 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.04Ω √
    30AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. =2.01 √
    30AWG, 9/8 1.58mm i.d., m.c. =1.93Ω √
    30AWG, 9/8 1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. =1.83 Ω √
    30AWG, 8/7 1.75mm i.d. m.c. = 1.85Ω √
    30AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d. m.c. = 1.81√
    30AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d. t.m.c. = 1.73Ω √
    30AWG, 7/6 1.75mm i.d., m.c. = 1.68 √
    30AWG, 7/6 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 1.57Ω √
    29AWG, 10/9 1/16-1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.95Ω √
    29AWG, 9/8 .07"-1.778mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.73Ω√
    29AWG, 9/8 1/16-1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.63Ω √
    29AWG, 8/7 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.52Ω √
    29AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.40Ω √
    28AWG, 10/9, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.62Ω
    28AWG, 9/8, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.49Ω
    28AWG, 8/7 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.3Ω
    28AWG, 10/9, 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c.= 1.3Ω #1637 Jamie Bates

    Click on any linked wind parameters for full details on Steam Engine.

    Some standard verification m.c. winds are included for perspective. All results were three times hit, verified on separate cargo-meters and variable in operation. Wire spec is Temco, Kanthal A-1. Nominal lead lengths typically noted on avg. are ~7mm(Neg)+9.25mm(Pos).

    m.c.= conventional (hand or mechanically wound) contact coil
    t.m.c. = tensioned contact coil
    √ = verified (proofed, duplicated)

    Your submissions would be helpful and appreciated. Please post or pm and I will validate (replicate) for this table as soon as possible.

    (n.b. A mechanically wound coil is not necessarily tensioned. Preferably tension adequate to induce turn-adhesion must have been applied for its use to be inferred or reported. Not merely external heat or forming pressure. Thank you, as there will be resistance implications and its important to make the destination.)

    Hope this info is helpful in targeting your temp sets. Let me know your validations please (or successful improvement so we can test it!).

    Good luck all.

    Last edited by MacTechVpr; 08-24-2014 at 04:45 PM.

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