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Thread: Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

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    Super Member Trayce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberjunkiefr View Post
    I build a vertical microcoil on my protank.
    Tried that a few times but got grommet burn every time, (though am getting that with all coils recently, so...) Would like to revisit those when Kanger releases the new silicone-grommet head.

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    If you get grummet burns then your coil is sitting to low (near the grummet) or your coils are not tight enough (the leads wil get very hot.
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    Wow, never thought about building a vertical microcoil in the Protank!! Very nice, cyberjunkie! How does it vape?? Better than a horizantal micro? I just got some more 28ga today to do some more experimenting
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    Soo Protank rebuilders... How many ohms (Ω) do you prefer to wrap your microcoil too, and why? Do you prefer 30gauge Kanthal, 28ga, 32ga, or maybe Nichrome? What do you use to wrap around, a 1/16" drill-bit, 5/64"? Do you use cotton, silica, SS mesh, ekowool?? Flavor wick, or just 1 wick through the coil? How much juice do you get through your coil before you have to change the wick out, or change the coil all together?
    .... Trying to figure out what works best for building a microcoil on the PT!

    I really need to go buy a mech-mod and buy an atomizer meant for rebuilding, like the IGO's or something
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    Quote Originally Posted by M_DuBb716 View Post
    Soo Protank rebuilders... How many ohms (Ω) do you prefer to wrap your microcoil too, and why? Do you prefer 30gauge Kanthal, 28ga, 32ga, or maybe Nichrome? What do you use to wrap around, a 1/16" drill-bit, 5/64"? Do you use cotton, silica, SS mesh, ekowool?? Flavor wick, or just 1 wick through the coil? How much juice do you get through your coil before you have to change the wick out, or change the coil all together?
    .... Trying to figure out what works best for building a microcoil on the PT!

    I really need to go buy a mech-mod and buy an atomizer meant for rebuilding, like the IGO's or something
    Hi M. Back with a few remarks. Been at this 4 mos.+ and I have a love hate relationship with the Protank. I resolved a few weeks in that there had to be a solution. I certainly have one where gurgling and hot legs (grommet scorching) are concerned and I'll probably have more to say here later. But it really boils down to symmetry as Rip Trippers discovered some time after starting to rebuild with micro coils and commented specifically about on one of his Protank videos with a change in his micro coil wind process. Unfortunately he didn't explain the "why". On the gurgling I described a maintenance routine that has virtually wiped it out. But another contributing factor has been media.

    Since I started I documented table results of builds by juice/blend with major attributes like wind i.d., media, size, fit, impedance, V/W of operation, resulting resistance under load, etc. It's important IF you want to be able to duplicate your results. You get what you build. Careless irregular hand winds will get you just that. You have to be a machine.

    Just sayin'.

    :smile:

    p.s. A good many of the Protank coils have gone straight in to RDA builds for me. An awesome 1.2Ω coil has done more than a half-doz reworks without straying more than .02Ω 28G on a Forge. Another 1.5Ω 28G has been doing similar service on a little appreciated $8 Optimus. Both due to good initial coil preparation. The Optimus sits on an eVic producing some of the most amazing flavor I've seen so far. Its never missing from my workspace. The 1.2Ω rotates on a pair of Magneto's with a kick. Don't think you need to start with a Helios or Trident (I have two of the latter and three Immortalizers). Those Protank coils will serve you well.

    Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity—Seneca the Younger

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    Super Member Trayce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacTechVpr View Post
    Hi M. Back with a few remarks. Been at this 4 mos.+ and I have a love hate relationship with the Protank. I resolved a few weeks in that there had to be a solution. I certainly have one where gurgling and hot legs (grommet scorching) are concerned and I'll probably have more to say here later.
    Why later? I would love to fix the grommet burn problem myself and am all ears. I compress coils with tweezers several times after heating, and they look perfect. No spaces between wraps, all uniform. Still heats the grommet enough to add a bad taste, though not every puff or when cold. But on repeated pulls, when warm, and when chain vaping. Makes it impossible to use.


    But it really boils down to symmetry as Rip Trippers discovered some time after starting to rebuild with micro coils and commented specifically about on one of his Protank videos with a change in his micro coil wind process.
    Did you happen to bookmark which video this was?

    Unfortunately he didn't explain the "why". On the gurgling I described a maintenance routine that has virtually wiped it out. But another contributing factor has been media.
    Again, would love to hear details. (In my case I eliminated gurgling by using a smaller implement for the wrap.)

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    Thanks for the informative reply Mac, but I couldn't fully understand everything you said there.. I don't have a gurgling problem, my grommets do burn sometimes but it doesn't usually effect the taste. But what is your solution?

    And what video are you speaking of, what is the change in the wind process? And how did you wipe out your gurgling problem. Thanks!
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    Built me some coils for the first time last week, and they are a marked improvement over the stock. I do have a small problem with a leak, more like an ooze, usually just wets the battery terminal top. I use the cotton yarn as the wick, all 4 strands threaded through the coil, nothing on top. I've had no dry hits/burning, wicking very good. Tell me, am I over- or under-wicked (ie - do I need to toss a strand or two on top), or is there maybe some assembly thing going on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trayce View Post
    Why later? I would love to fix the grommet burn problem myself and am all ears. I compress coils with tweezers several times after heating, and they look perfect. No spaces between wraps, all uniform. Still heats the grommet enough to add a bad taste, though not every puff or when cold. But on repeated pulls, when warm, and when chain vaping. Makes it impossible to use.

    Did you happen to bookmark which video this was?
    Mini Protank Micro Coil Rebuild
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrvwOf13U-s

    The description begins at 1:55 for returning the torched coil to the drill bit for shaping. Why? Because it's rather difficult to get a perfect straight leg off both ends of the coil. Often it happens that you end up with an irregular turn one one or both sides. This must be corrected because such an irregularity may result in a contact of the end turns that is not consistent with the rest. This will effect electron flow. You will not get an optimal result of "the effect". It will impact fire-up speed, may affect impedance (through incidental contact) and I've come to believe this contributes to the incidence of insulator scorching producing the burned taste being experienced. Having taught and perfectly opposed leg symmetry will absolutely stop this (except for top cap shorts, different issue) and is essential to the symmetry of the coil in operation.

    Be aware that if the coil placement ultimately is a bit high a top-wick and pressure from the top cap if too thick may force the coil down. This might introduce variations of the path of either or both legs increasing the potential for shorts. So wick and top-wick diameter is important.

    If the positive poll leg is pulled too tight during installation you may also induce a separation at the top of the outer end of the wind. However, slight this could reduce the efficiency of the flow (after all that careful work). Don't push the work. Slow and steady saves time.

    The only evidence I have is purely anecdotal that after doing more than a hundred variations of builds using this very careful technique of avoiding asymmetry I've not had any grommet scorching. Now mind you, I do stabilize the coil during assembly. I maintain an absolute symmetry and perfectly taught opposed poles at all times. No chance of any incidental contact by the positive leg with the walls or either leg with each other. That results in pretty close and consistent overall wire length in the coil assembly based on the mandrel diameter and as a result predictable resistance results. I also torch each reshaping typically up to a total of three times and quench the coils immediately each time. I believe the latter contributes greatly to the integrity of coil shape. I was skeptical about quenching but rather astounded by the consistency of the results.

    I sometimes use a slightly different approach. As I build on an instrument phillips screwdriver, I can torch right on that bit using some forceps to pull the legs taught. Very briefly and being certain that all coils are compressed and in contact under mild tension. This as a first burn. But although adding some complexity it ensures that the first time that I compress the coil with forceps or tweezers off the bit I do not risk introducing an overlap with overpressure. This is very useful for wire gauges smaller than 30. Careful not to pull too hard on the legs or torch too much. You'll burn them right off in a heartbeat.

    Another video I need to locate describes a technique of winding extra turns and unwinding them by pulling some turns off the bit or mandrel leaving the number you require. Say wind 10 and slowly pull off 2 or 3 under tension, leaving 7. This can result in a perfectly tight symmetrical coil to begin with. For the pro tank it's got to be pretty right going in as it's easy to pull the external legs out of optimal shape and contact if its already a bit off during the installation and tensioning the legs. Doom! You may attempt to rejoin the loops by firing the battery but more often than not you've lost alignment. The more perfectly joined the turns are to start the better. And if it's not firing micro from the onset, pull it and set it back on the bit or start over. Far less work in the long run.

    All I have time for tonight. Like I said, several months being disciplined about it on the initial coil design and no burns. A lot more reusable coils too as the shape is likely to be better maintained after break-in. I re-wick most or turn em out to RDA duty with minimal reshaping.

    Would love to hear your observations as well.

    Good luck!

    Last edited by MacTechVpr; 11-06-2013 at 11:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M_DuBb716 View Post
    Thanks for the informative reply Mac, but I couldn't fully understand everything you said there.. I don't have a gurgling problem, my grommets do burn sometimes but it doesn't usually effect the taste. But what is your solution?

    And what video are you speaking of, what is the change in the wind process? And how did you wipe out your gurgling problem. Thanks!
    Good morning M. I responded to Trayce above last night in response to your question. He insisted. Honestly very tired and I hope I didn't introduce any confusion.

    I was utterly frustrated at the beginning with how unreliable resistance and performance results were from hand winds, screw winds or simple bit winds. And yeah, with the regular problems of the PT everyone runs into with the insulators and flooding. I figured there had to be a better, simple more reliable way to get this done. Was surprised, and I've talked to a lot of vendors and vapors why this info (our discoveries) is not "pinned" somewhere uniformly by someone. Like, what's the optimal performance sweetspot for a Protank. A short Protank for Dummies 101 with a basic procedure that works and reproducible 1.8, 2.2, and 2.5 ohm instructions with expected results for common wick media.

    I know. It's not easy.

    Look, we all have preferences. But the device has an ideal performance point. We find that, we can duplicate that, then it's a lot easier to get to where we want to be. But not if results are all over the board. The other maddening issue was getting the damned wick into the coil if you pre-wind. And assembling a wicked coil is a bear. Most likely approach to damaging the coil shape you spent so much time on. And it seems no one has a great answer or keeps it real close to the chest. I concluded you need to design the coil build first then determine what fits that best. In my case, on Kanger's, I'm favoring Nextel first, then Ekowool for ease of insertion once you settle on an internal coil diameter that works for you. For example, I'm getting consistently better results on a 1.75mm i.d. overall for the original PT. Nextel XC-132 inserts with incredible ease into that diameter. This permits one to build the perfect coil, in place, determine that you have optimal micro coil performance on the assembly then to insert your media.

    Once you're burned in, on the head, you're not likely to compromise the coil shape much if at all, with the best wick media solution for that wind. Translation, it just works. And, you can duplicate it. No more shorting, minimal flooding but this latter is unfortunately characteristic of the head assembly design. The PT2 is a big improvement. As well the "no glue" cross-bar version that preceded it for a time if you like the older streamlined easthetics.

    Please share results, comments, appreciated.

    Good luck!

    beckdg and JasonBourne like this.

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