Any interest in determining nicotine--by DVAP

[Mister]

Originally Posted by TheLizinator

a third-generation electrically heated cigarette smoking system (EHCSS)

Do we know whether that's an e-cig or is something else again?

[kinabaloo]

Originally Posted by Mister

Do we know whether that's an e-cig or is something else again?

Might have been one of my crazy devices

edit: oh, it says 'third generation'; whereas my ideas are more 4th dimension / twilight zone

[Vaporer]

I would have really liked to see the design of the device tested and the medium (including ingredients) the nicotine was in. Not asking for much ....huh?

I had once commented that for people with respiratory problems, at a minimum, thier O2 levels should be higher due to less CO being produced. Since CO bonds to red blood cells 200x easier than O2 reducing the bloods ability carry O2. I was comented on pretty harshly since no actual testing had been done. It's pretty hard to produce CO which comes from incomplete combustion when no combustion is occuring.

A very interesting article Liz.

Edit: The link to GetSmartSmoker.com still works to an e cig lol
The ol Free......pay $9.95. S&H and we'll bill you $100 in a month and more automatically.

[kinabaloo]

Anyone know if ammonia is defintely added to tobacco (as, say, di-ammonium carbonate, or some other salt); are we sure that with analogs it might not be a nicotine breakdown/reaction product? Not found any chemistry to support this idea as yet but it's a possibility, unless juice manufacturers have been adding an ammonium salt or it it comng from a common flavor (enhancer) such as ethyl maltol (any N in that?). Or perhaps from the N in air, but that seems very unlikely as N gas is very stable (unreactive).

BTW, what form of nic is used in patches? A nic salt, or actual nic enmeshed in a matrix of capillaries? If as DVap said there is potentially 5x the normally extracted dosage available, not toooo expensive.

[Vaporer]

Kin,

There is a list of 500 chemicals somewhere that Ammonia is listed in analogs as an ingredient. The actual list of ingredients as I read it only has to be made available to the gov once a year and anyone who even reads it (no copying allowed) has to sign a very strict confidentiality agreement just to see it.

On the previous citric acid issue. I'm sitting here looking at an older bottle
of Johnsons Creek and Citric Acid is in the ingredients list.

[TheLizinator]

After supersnooping on the web, I did come up with the "Accord", Philip Morris' version of a "harm reduction" smoke:

Philip Morris is testing its own high-tech cigarette called Accord, which has been described as a cigarette encased in a kazoo-shaped lighter. Consumers buy a $40 kit that includes a battery charger, a puff-activated lighter that holds the cigarette, and a carton of special cigarettes. To smoke the cigarettes, a smoker sucks on the kazoolike box. A microchip senses the puff and sends a burst of heat to the cigarette. The process gives the smoker one drag and does not create ashes or smoke. An illuminated display shows the number of puffs remaining, and the batteries must be recharged after every pack. It's unclear whether smokers will find the low-smoke and -ash benefits desirable enough to justify learning an entirely new smoking ritual. Although Philip Morris doesn't make health claims about Accord, the company in 1998 told the Society of Toxicology that Accord generated 83 percent fewer toxins than a regular cigarette.

For $40, the Accord smoker gets a battery charger, heating device, and carton of special cigarettes.
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Lowering nitrosamines
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Perhaps the most promising new technology to make a safer cigarette lies in research to lower nitrosamines, those prevalent and deadly cancer-causing compounds in cigarettes. Brown & Williamson and RJR are developing cigarettes that use a special tobacco with lower nitrosamine content. The tobacco is cured with a special process that inhibits the formation of nitrosamines. But Brown &Williamson isn't planning to tout the health benefits of the nitrosamine-free smoke. "We can't be sure nitrosamine-free tobacco is necessarily safer," a B&W spokeswoman told the Wall Street Journal. "We don't want to claim the product is safer unless we are sure it is. It's a bit of a muggy area."

Although public health officials describe the quest for a nitrosamine-free cigarette as a step in the right direction, the research still raises concerns that smokers could be lulled into a false sense of security. Cigarettes without nitrosamines still produce other carcinogens, scientists say, and more smokers die of heart-related ailments than cancer. As Dietrich Hoffmann of the American Health Foundation says, "The best cigarette is no cigarette."


Tara Parker-Pope, a reporter for the Wall Street Journal, is the author of Cigarettes: Anatomy of an Industry from Seed to Smoke (The New Press, 2001), from which this article was excerpted with permission.

Trying to insert the image of the device but don't know if it will work so here's the site from NOVA:
NOVA Online | Search for a Safe Cigarette | "Safer" Cigarettes: A History

Liz

[kinabaloo]

Originally Posted by Vaporer

Kin,

There is a list of 500 chemicals somewhere that Ammonia is listed in analogs as an ingredient. The actual list of ingredients as I read it only has to be made available to the gov once a year and anyone who even reads it (no copying allowed) has to sign a very strict confidentiality agreement just to see it.

So there might be cow dung in there !

That's a cheap source of nic and methane, for those not in the know.

(also explains the taste. oh no, let the cat out the bag ...

wait a moment .... some MIBs at the door ......)

[DVap]

Liz,

It's very interesting. Even though it's not spelled out explicitly whether the device is an e-cig as we are familiar with, or a similar design, the does show something we've known all along, the environmental markers are way down.

kin, Everybody is free to apply their preferred assumptions. Heck, some folks might find that they take closer to a 3 second vape than 5.. and for these folks, the 6 uL figure would have to adjust down to 3.6 uL. I was just happy to get some good tight numbers.

Ethyl Maltol, btw, is most technically an acid, likely weak (like phenol). It's got the hydroxy group hanging off a ring with some electron withdrawing species on the ring that would tend to give the OH group some slight potential to dissociate the hydrogen. (Probably one of the reasons I prefer to test unflavored concentrates is that the more stuff is in a liquid, the more potential to have an added component futz with the titration).

[kinabaloo]

Well, if the device tested was akin to the Accord, heating tobacco, that explains the no CO but significant NH3 (as a tobacco additive).

[TheLizinator]

I don't know about anyone else, but I have to wonder with all the gabillions of dollars Philip Morris has poured into researching a safer smoke, they haven't even come CLOSE to the technology vapers are enjoying. I'm one of those people who tried the Eclipse dud they developed. UGH, the taste of those things was NASTY. If they are opposing the PV, I just have to wonder if they aren't kicking themselves for not coming up with something similar (or even close to the relatively elegant design of our PVs). Major DUH to Philip Morris and the rest of the corporate tobacco goons.