Vegetable Gylcerin vs Generic Glycerin

[markarich159]

Please remember, you are the one that said they wanted people to have the facts straight.

And you and Scottes have done a very good job of murking up the facts. I'm still waiting for one of you to actually read the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994(this is now the 5th time, I believe in 3 seperate threads, I'm referencing this) to find out why ANYTHING not specifically labeled Glycerine, USP ON THE FRONT OF THE LABEL is suspect.

i.e. Under DSHEA, a firm is responsible for determining that the dietary supplements it manufactures or distributes are safe and that any representations or claims made about them are substantiated by adequate evidence to show that they are not false or misleading. This means that dietary supplements do not need approval from FDA before they are marketed. (meaning the manufacturer of these "health food store" products can say or advertise these products any way they want, without FDA approval - do you really want to trust that going into your lungs)

Here's more:

Who has the responsibility for ensuring that a dietary supplement is safe?

By law (DSHEA), the manufacturer is responsible for ensuring that its dietary supplement products are safe before they are marketed. Unlike drug products that must be proven safe and effective for their intended use before marketing, there are no provisions in the law for FDA to "approve" dietary supplements for safety or effectiveness before they reach the consumer.

And More:

Do manufacturers or distributors of dietary supplements have to tell FDA or consumers what evidence they have about their product's safety or what evidence they have to back up the claims they are making for them?
No, except for rules described above that govern "new dietary ingredients," there is no provision under any law or regulation that FDA enforces that requires a firm to disclose to FDA or consumers the information they have about the safety or purported benefits of their dietary supplement products. Likewise, there is no prohibition against them making this information available either to FDA or to their customers. It is up to each firm to set its own policy on disclosure of such information.

But if you don't want to take the time, then don't. I'm finished and have already informed the mods as well as the forum administrator, to start looking into unqualified, uneducated persons posting innuendo to purposely cause confusion and aggravation(i.e. trolling) But I'm done wasting my time and professional opinion. Buy and inhale whatever you want.

[Valkerie]

From another post with a few additions:

I'm a pharmacist in PA. I'm going to copy and paste a post I wrote in another subforum:

Go to the skin care aisle of most any pharmacy and you'll find a small(usually 6oz) bottle labled Glycerine, USP(Some pharmacies don't carry outright , but will special order for you). The label may have it listed as CVS Glycerine, USP or Rite Aid Glycerine, USP or Humco Glycerine, USP or Family Pharmacy Glycerine, USP etc.. you get my point. Whatever it's labeled, it's Glycerine, USP 99.5% anhydrous(check USP monograph for the additonal allowances on the remaining 0.5%). It will cost anywhere from $3 to $6 for 6oz.(CHEAP). This is vegetable glycerine, absolutely, positively, no doubt. How do I know this? Most All OTC glycerine,USP is made by 1 single manufacturer, HUMCO. It is then contract packaged into the different pharmacy labeled bottles. I've personally called HUMCO and spoke with their QA(quality assurance) person. He assured me that HUMCO's Glycerine is in fact Vegetable source Glycerine. From their company information I'll pass along the following:

Among our wholesale customers are McKesson Healthcare Solutions, Cardinal Health and AmerisourceBergen(which is the Family Phamacy and Good Neighbor Pharmacy labels) along with most regional wholesalers. In addition, Humco supplies products to Walgreens, CVS, Rite Aid and Wal-Mart. (which covers, ostensibly, all major label OTC Glycerine, USP)

So any Glycerine, USP labeled in any of the above mentioned Pharmacy lables(i.e. Family Pharmacy, Good Neighbor Pharmacy, CVS, Rite Aid, Walgreen's and Walmart labels) IS USP grade AND Vegetable sourced.


The reason it's labeled Glycerine and not Vegetable Glycerine is because #1 it is listed in the USP as Glycerine, USP and therefore(in order to keep the USP certification) must be labeled as it's listed in the USP. #2 it would cause confusion as Glycerine is Glycerine(regardless of the source - chemically 1,2,3-propane triol), to add the moniker VEGETABLE, makes it sound like it's two different and distinct products, it isn't. Also, USP grade Glycerine is the purest you can get. Food Grade "vegetable Glycerine" you get in health food store saying 99.9% is misleading. Since they do not have to meet any stringent labeling standards(such as FDA/USP standards) they could say anything(refer to the Dietary Supplement Health & Education Act of 1994 for further information) . If you get USP grade, you know you are getting exactly what is labeled(within allowable USP limits) and it is made to most stringent requirements(cGMP) available in the US. (i.e. USP stands for United States Pharmacopeia- drugs have meet higher standards then foods do). Kashrut(kosher) laws are Jewish religious dietary laws having to do with the preparation of food products and really have nothing to do with the labeled purity of the product. Also, Kashrut(kosher) laws are jurisdictional(handled differently in different places). In some cases a rabbi must come to the manufacturer and verify processes and equipment conform to kosher law and in some places it's enough that the manufacturer says or thinks he is conforming to the kosher laws. In any case USP and Kosher are 2 different things. There is no such listing in the USP for "Kosher Glycerine". To the people who are feeling naseous using pharmacy bought Glycerine, USP, it may be a placebo effect(thinking your not using the real VG) or you may have a sensitivity to Glycerine(unlikely). But it is not because the Pharmacy bought Glycerine,USP is inferior or NOT Vegetable Glycerine.

For Vapers who may have Porcine(pork) allergies or are avoiding Porcine source products for religious reasons(Orthodox Jewish or Islamic Vapers), you can use any of above Humco packaged Glycerine, USP with assurance it is a vegetable sourced product and made to the highest USP compendial standards.

Thank you for the post.

I have a 16oz bottle of Now vegetable gylcerine, which is heading for the bathroom. It'll make an excellent moisturizer...but I'm not going to vape it.

The Now bottle that I have is the purple one.

[NightShadow]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLDS181
Wow.

I'm done. I'm going to start banging my head into the table soon.

Below "NOW"

---- HERE ----

Above "Vegetable"

Unless they've changed their label very recently (like in the past week or so), where I put "HERE" it says "USP GLYCERIN"

omg no really? wow!

*sigh*

To me the above says you have or have seen a bottle that reads as you have posted it.

For example one that reads:

"NOW
USP GLYCERINE
vegetable"

If you say you have one that says that then I will take your word on it.
I did click on every link on the first page of google search results for several permutations of now glycerine products and failed to produce one as you stated. I did find the white label /clear bottle type but it reads the same as mine:




As you can clearly see in the pic I posted, mine does not say USP GLYCERIN on the front, but it does say USP on the rear as I have previously posted.

If you want to tell the world that nobody can print the words USP VEGETABLE GLYCERIN and have it still be USP, thats fine.

I dont see any reason why something cannot be USP glycerine, AND vegetable based however, which was my point. And if as you say your label says:

NOW
USP GLYCERINE
VEGETABLE

Then I must conclude that you agree

[Scottes]

Geez, sometimes I think we're all agreeing very violently.


USP Glycerin is excellent, and the safest stuff known to mankind (or at least the US government agencies that regulate it).

USP Glycerin sourced from vegetables is better for some people.

USP Glycerin that is Kosher and sourced from vegetables and said to be vegan is even better for some people.

Kosher products must be clearly identified by graphics listed in a previous post.

Vegetable Glycerin is not USP unless it says that it's USP Glycerin.

Vegetable Glycerin that is not USP is a "use at your own risk" item because it's not regulated by the government. It's not necessarily worse, nor better, but is simply not known to be safe per USP regulations. Believe there marketing at your own risk, and use at your own risk.

NOW makes USP Glycerin that is sourced from vegetables but it is apparently difficult to find on the web, and NOW's web site does not list it.

Other countries have agencies similar to the US's USP - they're also listed in a previous post. This thread mentions little of those agencies, so non-Americans should do some research.



Is there anything else that we violently agree on?

[NightShadow]

And you and Scottes have done a very good job of murking up the facts. I'm still waiting for one of you to actually read the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994(this is now the 5th time, I believe in 3 seperate threads, I'm referencing this) to find out why ANYTHING not specifically labeled Glycerine, USP ON THE FRONT OF THE LABEL is suspect.

i.e. Under DSHEA, a firm is responsible for determining that the dietary supplements it manufactures or distributes are safe and that any representations or claims made about them are substantiated by adequate evidence to show that they are not false or misleading. This means that dietary supplements do not need approval from FDA before they are marketed. (meaning the manufacturer of these "health food store" products can say or advertise these products any way they want, without FDA approval - do you really want to trust that going into your lungs)

But if you don't want to take the time, then don't. I'm finished and have already informed the mods as well as the forum administrator, to start looking into unqualified, uneducated persons posting innuendo to purposely cause confusion and aggravation(i.e. trolling) But I'm done wasting my time and professional opinion. Buy and inhale whatever you want.

I am sorry if you feel that my discussion here is unworthy. I was one of the first people to attempt to assist the OP in this thread, and suggested they not use a product that was obviously giving them a bad reaction. I even linked them to the thread that you posted in as a reference for them to read.

I do believe the disclaimer for the entire DIY thread is to "use at your own risk" which should cover dangerous posts from uneducated folks such as myself apparently.

I have never said anything about what is or is not legal, or safe as a fact, just my opinion on what may be safer or better etc. I further think my intent will be clear to the mods, and any muddying as you call it was an attempt at understanding what others are posting here as well.

My intent was not to become an expert on all things USP/FDA/CFR etc ad nauseum, but simply to ask why something cant be both usp glycerin AND vegetable based, that is all.

I am not attempting to state which is better ie USP verses non USP or state that one is better or worse than the other here but if anything I feel I should point out my posts and replies while not being backed by 20 degrees have been more courteous and restrained than some others I could mention.

And mods: if attempting to get good, accurate, factual information, and clarifying things is trolling then yes I am certainly guilty of this. I am sorry if you must use your time to review this entire thread however.

[NightShadow]

Geez, sometimes I think we're all agreeing very violently.


USP Glycerin is excellent, and the safest stuff known to mankind (or at least the US government agencies that regulate it).

USP Glycerin sourced from vegetables is better for some people.

USP Glycerin that is Kosher and sourced from vegetables and said to be vegan is even better for some people.

Kosher products must be clearly identified by graphics listed in a previous post.

Vegetable Glycerin is not USP unless it says that it's USP Glycerin.

Vegetable Glycerin that is not USP is a "use at your own risk" item because it's not regulated by the government. It's not necessarily worse, nor better, but is simply not known to be safe per USP regulations. Believe there marketing at your own risk, and use at your own risk.

NOW makes USP Glycerin that is sourced from vegetables but it is apparently difficult to find on the web, and NOW's web site does not list it.

Other countries have agencies similar to the US's USP - they're also listed in a previous post. This thread mentions little of those agencies, so non-Americans should do some research.



Is there anything else that we violently agree on?

I vilolently agree to violently agree with the above!
And oh yeah and I like Pie

[Sun Vaporer]

Now's website for sure lists, its ingrediants---seems clean for sure:

"What is the source of NOW® Vegetable Glycerine, and can it be used as a sweetener?
NOW® Vegetable Glycerine is a natural by-product of the cosmetic industry. It is derived from palm oil and is 100% pure. Vegetable Glycerine is safe to use as a natural sweetener, and actually metabolizes slower than regular table sugar."


USP Grade from Now.


Sun

[a2dcovert]

Thank you for the post.

I have a 16oz bottle of Now vegetable gylcerine, which is heading for the bathroom. It'll make an excellent moisturizer...but I'm not going to vape it.

The Now bottle that I have is the purple one.

Why would you not want this in your nic juice? It is labeled as a USP and food grade 100% pure vegetable glycerine. People put butter and cucumbers on their skin and that doesn't mean you shouldn't eat it. ???

Kevin

[a2dcovert]

Why would you not want this in your nic juice? It is labeled as a USP and food grade 100% pure vegetable glycerine. People put butter and cucumbers on their skin and that doesn't mean you shouldn't eat it. ???

Kevin

I think I see the difference. The wording could be deceptive as it doesn't say that it is USP, it says a "USP and food Grade". That may be a play on words. Probably techinically legal but be it makes me wonder now.

Kevin

[bluesuede]

Posted this in the other thread but hoping for a faster reply on this thread.

Update: Received my order from Essential Wholesale. 16 oz bottles are labled as follows:
PG: Propylene Glycol USP (on the side: natural source)
VG: Glycerine Vegetable, (Kosher, FCC, USP). (on the side: natural source)

I'm somewhat befuddled by the FCC thing. I would also like to know what the natural source is for PG. Mark, would you know?