Catalan Cream (FA) Question - Recipe Troubles
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Thread: Catalan Cream (FA) Question - Recipe Troubles

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    Default Catalan Cream (FA) Question - Recipe Troubles

    I'm two months in to vaping after 20 years of smoking, and this forum has been fantastic. Been lurking around and learning alot, and thought it would be time to start asking questions/posting. Just started DIY, and I have a question about a recipe I just made. I'm familliar with the flavors I used except Catalan Crean (FA), and French Vanilla (TFA). I mixed them at 2% each, and got an overpowering spicy note, so much it overpowers the dragon fruit and strawberry in the recipe. Kind of a peppery, clove, cinn spice. I think it's the Catalan Cream, anyone familiar with this flavor, or know where I picked up that spicy note? If it is the cream, it would be good in other recipies, just not what I was looking for in the Dragon/Strawberry mix.

    The recipe was:

    Dragon Fruit (TFA) 5%
    Sweet Strawberry (CP) 10%
    Hypnotic Mist (FA) 3%
    Catalan Cream (FA) 2%
    French Vanilla (TFA) 2%

    Think it will be a decent mix, maybe substitute bavarian, or sweet cream for the catalan?

    Thanks for the help.

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    Super Member Verified Member garpt01's Avatar
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    I've been DIY'ing for a couple months now, and one thing I've learned is the discipline needed to make a flavor, follow the recipe closely (if applicable), and then DON'T let the immediiate "taste test" effect your blend! The prominent notes will be extra strong and often almost overpower the blend, and the juiice may have a "harsh" or alchoholic note. STEEPING will cure that! I use warm water baths which accellerate the steeping. Otherwise, it is not unusual to have to wait a week, often longer for the blend to mature. Try not to "over tweak" while waiting. I ruined a few of my early attempts by over sweetening, compensating, etc. And the sweet cream might be a good idea, I've used the Bavarian and Catalan creams and they are quite powerful.

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    Thanks for the reply. I'll give it some time steep and see if the harshness fades. I've read alot of people like the Catalan cream, I was just surprised at the spiciness. I've heard they are powerful, and can get hot at high %'s. Patiences is the hardest part when you're just starting and MIX CRAZY!

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    What garpt01 said!

    And yep, it's likely the Catalan Cream. If it were us (and we ended up needing to change it after thorough steeping), we'd sub with Fresh Cream (FA)...you're loaded with sweetness already with the Sweet Strawberry & French Vanilla - so you don't really need a 'sugary cream'. Fresh Cream has got great 'body'...and (in our opinion) there's no reason to use an 'inhalation risk' (acetoin in the Bavarian or Sweet Cream), if it's not a "must have" for flavor/taste.

    'Sounds like a great mix! We've been going to try the Hypnotic Mist with some 'fruits n' flowers' for awhile now, and just haven't gotten around to it yet.

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    Sorry, forgot to ask, so is the Catalan Cream spicy, or have you found that it will that fade with the steeping.

    Thanks

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    Great thanks, posted my question as your reply came up. Thanks for the tip on the bavarian, and sweet cream. I ordered them from RTS, they are both TFA. They don't list acetoin, and say that it does not contain any "custard" note ingredients. Does this mean it won't have the acetoin in it, or should I avoid using them.

    Thanks again for all the help.

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    You can go to the TFA website and see which flavors have that class of chemicals, here: Perfumers Apprentice - Professional Flavors

    Hmmm, RTS claims that? I'll go check it out, be right back.

    Okay, well this is none too pleasing...RTS claims:

    --Bavarian Cream doesn't have 'custard notes', but TFA states that it does *** Note: we have recently discovered that this flavor has a small trace amount of Acetoin
    --Sweet Cream doesn't have 'custard notes', but TFA states that it does This flavor contains a small trace amount of the Custard Note Acetoin.

    Wow, this is gettin' hairy. I see several that have them, where RTS claims 'not' or doesn't mention them But I don't have the time to check 'em all out.
    Does this mean it won't have the acetoin in it, or should I avoid using them.
    That's entirely up to you. But we would have NEVER started using them (ever!), if we'd known that 'trace amounts', calculate out to be far more than what is recommended for inhalation safety. With gazillions of options, why use the ones with known inhalation risks? But that's us.

    I just saw this (from here, post #1108 TPA/TFA Recipes only!) regarding TFA flavors...
    ETA: I just sent an email asking for quantification of trace amounts. Linda wrote me back and said trace means "usually less than 1%".
    There's also a list of TFA flavors containing 'custard notes' in the posts following that one.

    'Thing is, "trace amounts" carry strong potential risk according to CDC/NIOSH data. We calculated out the percentages and ppb (parts per billion) and compared it to the CDC/NIOSH recommendations/data here: CDC - NIOSH Update - Diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione: NIOSH Seeks Comment On Draft Criteria Document which basically states: 5-8 ppb for 8-hour-daily exposure, and 25ppb for short-term/15 minute exposure.

    Trace amount of .05%, in a flavor used at 5% in a mix = 250 ppb
    Trace amount of .6%, in a flavor used at 2% in a mix = 1200 ppb

    So "less than 1%" (even less than .1%) ends up yielding much more than what most of us would assume it would/could.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarmy View Post
    Sorry, forgot to ask, so is the Catalan Cream spicy, or have you found that it will that fade with the steeping.

    Thanks
    We've found it really depends upon what it's mixed with...but it does seem (to us) to always fade at least a wee bit. 'Suprised to read that up against that much Sweet Strawberry and TFA Dragonfruit (TFA Dragonfruit is intense-in-a-bottle) that you were able to discern the 'spicy' of the Catalan Cream much at all. But sometimes certain flavors cause others to stand out (just like some flavors smother others).

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    Thank you for clearing that up about the creams, and pulling all that information together. The only reason I ordered them from RTS was because they listed them as not have the custard notes (Acetoin) which I wanted to avoid. From now on I'll go directly to the manufacture for this information. I just created a ticket with RTS to see if they can clear this up, and at least change how they are advertising these.

    Now, knowing I want to avoid acetoin, can you recomend a cream, sweet cream, or bavarian that you use which doesn't have the custard notes? I'm looking for the rich creaminess, or sweet cream addition to mixes.

    Again, thanks for all the help.

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    Ultra Member Verified Member HeadInClouds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarmy View Post
    Now, knowing I want to avoid acetoin, can you recomend a cream, sweet cream, or bavarian that you use which doesn't have the custard notes? I'm looking for the rich creaminess, or sweet cream addition to mixes.
    None of these have those "custard notes" ingredients:

    Flavour Art Vienna Cream is rich, sweet, very creamy, vanilla. 2-3% on its own it's like that vanilla custard in the middle of Boston cream pie. I think this is the one you're looking for. I recommend it highly as a replacement for bavarian cream and vanilla custard flavors.

    Flavour Art Fresh Cream is plain cream, no vanilla, no sweetener. I use it to add cream flavor or round out just about any recipe without adding vanilla flavor. Very useful flavor.

    Flavour Art Catalan Cream does indeed have a little spice in it, but not much. I taste warm cinnamon with the creamy vanilla. Make sure you're shaking the flavor bottle before you're measuring it out.

    Flavour Art Custard also has no custard notes, despite the name. It is a base ingredient to use in recipes. You add the vanilla, caramel, fruit, spice (etc) to get a finished flavor. It's super with a little Rum.

    They also have 3 vanillas, each different, each useful. None are creamy; they are like an assortment of tasty vanilla extracts.

    And you are correct - you have to check manufacturers' websites. FA separates e-cig and "kitchen magic" flavors and warns against using the later for inhalation. TFA lists known ingredient information on their website. But most resellers DO include the ones with the ingredients you don't want, usually without mentioning it. Most other manufacturers don't disclose this info, if they even know.
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