glycerin vs. vg - e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat

momswann · 02-15-2009, 10:21 AM

Is there a difference? I just read somewhere on a recent post that vaping glycerin could cause kidney damage? Now I can't find the post.

I just bought some of the Walton's glycerine (it's cake frosting thinnner)

edit: here is the link to the above post about kidney damage
two easy questions...glycol and "finishing the cig"

Kate · 02-15-2009, 09:06 PM

Jaaxx wrote a post recently about glycerine and how it was made. Not all glycerine is of vegetable origin but if it's USP grade it doesn't matter.

I haven't heard about kidney damage with glycerine, Katink's reply on that thread suggests that it's not a big concern.

momswann · 02-16-2009, 11:43 AM

Thanks so much. YOu are always right there with an answer!

udave · 02-16-2009, 08:26 PM

Polyethylene Glycol was the one that could cause kidney problems. In fact, PEG is the active ingredient in laxatives and it says right on the bottle NOT to use the laxative if you have kidney problems. Everything I have read so far points to food grade glycerine being safe.

Terraphon · 02-16-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by udave

Polyethylene Glycol was the one that could cause kidney problems. In fact, PEG is the active ingredient in laxatives and it says right on the bottle NOT to use the laxative if you have kidney problems. Everything I have read so far points to food grade glycerine being safe.

Do you, perchance, have links to any of your information?

udave · 02-17-2009, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraphon

Do you, perchance, have links to any of your information?

I don't think I can post links yet, but I will try. You have probably read this thread already but this is the thread that really set my mind at ease about glycerine (the posts by Kate and jimldk.)
../forum/health-safety-e-smoking/2205-vegetable-glycerine-glycerol-safety-discussion.html

I also checked as many MSDS's as I could, most of them said glycerine may be a respiratory irritant at high concentrations, but I couldn't find any that listed long term exposure risks.

Of course when I said "safe", what I meant to say was that glycerine seems to be as safe as PG, and safer than inhaling cigarette smoke.

JoeSmog · 05-11-2009, 05:05 PM

Check out herbalsoapbyrj.com/glycerin-msds.htm.

This is not good. PG and VG are likely going to cause moderate to serious harm given the amount of 'consumption' that occurs with vaping. I hate this after investing over $100 dollars and doing it for a week.. I got strange feelings, tightness of chest, heart palpitations and tingling.. that's when I hit this health topics thread and started doing some DD.

JoeSmog · 05-11-2009, 05:09 PM

Also..

www .jtbaker.commsds/englishhtml/p5029.htm

excerpt:

8. Exposure Controls/Personal Protection

Airborne Exposure Limits:
AIHA Workplace Environmental Exposure Level (WEEL):
Polypropylene glycols: 8-hour TWA: 10 mg/m3, as an aerosol

Ventilation System:
A system of local and/or general exhaust is recommended to keep employee exposures below the Airborne Exposure Limits. Local exhaust ventilation is generally preferred because it can control the emissions of the contaminant at its source, preventing dispersion of it into the general work area. Please refer to the ACGIH document, Industrial Ventilation, A Manual of Recommended Practices, most recent edition, for details.
Personal Respirators (NIOSH Approved):
For use with solids (not required for liquids): If the exposure limit is exceeded and engineering controls are not feasible, a half facepiece particulate respirator (NIOSH type N95 or better filters) may be worn for up to ten times the exposure limit or the maximum use concentration specified by the appropriate regulatory agency or respirator supplier, whichever is lowest.. A full-face piece particulate respirator (NIOSH type N100 filters) may be worn up to 50 times the exposure limit, or the maximum use concentration specified by the appropriate regulatory agency, or respirator supplier, whichever is lowest. If oil particles (e.g. lubricants, cutting fluids, glycerine, etc.) are present, use a NIOSH type R or P filter. For emergencies or instances where the exposure levels are not known, use a full-facepiece positive-pressure, air-supplied respirator. WARNING: Air-purifying respirators do not protect workers in oxygen-deficient atmospheres.
Skin Protection:
Wear protective gloves and clean body-covering clothing.
Eye Protection:
Use chemical safety goggles. Maintain eye wash fountain and quick-drench facilities in work area.

Be careful folks.. very careful.

Tallgirl1974 · 05-11-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeSmog

Be careful folks.. very careful.

Did you, per chance, read the side effects & warnings of the 4000 chemicals in a cigarette before you got addicted to them? If so, why did you smoke them anyway? If not, why not? Its true, it may cause problems, they dont know yet and that sucks...but studies done on fog machines have proven it can cause irritations to throat and lungs but havent proven they do much of anything else. Doctors recommend asthmatics not be around fog machines. (Doctors recomend no one smokes)

Would you put this in your body?:
Toxicology: Harmful if swallowed. Experimental teratogen. Irritant in humans. May affect CNS.

Or this?
Toxicology: Causes skin and eye irritation. Ingestion can cause nausea, vomitting and inebriation; chronic use can cause serious liver damage.

If those two things bother you: do not drink caffeine or alcohol *ever again. Be careful people, be very careful!
Everything will have possibles and unknowns. I'll take a food additive in my lungs over tar TYVM.

JoeSmog · 05-11-2009, 06:18 PM

Point(s) taken, but we need to take into account the amount/density of the chemicals we are talking about.

I've not done any sort of computation to relate the density of the PG when vaping to those values indicated in the MSDS, but obviously the amounts of vapor we are consuming is very high and at a high rate of frequency every day.

Again, I just recommend that people educate themselves. I've vaped for a week and it worked as for curbing my desire for a real cig, but the aforementioned physical side effects I cannot live with.

Per the MSDS, VG it seems is going to be worse than PG, unfortunately ( I bought a half gallon online last week. Makes a great skin softener so not a total loss

I've got some friends in the BioTech industry that I'm going to help with my DD on this subject.

DO be careful. Be wary also of those that discount any risk to vaping PG or VG as many here seem to have financial interests before health interests.

02-15-2009, 10:21 AM	#1
momswann ECF Veteran Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 90	glycerin vs. vg Is there a difference? I just read somewhere on a recent post that vaping glycerin could cause kidney damage? Now I can't find the post. I just bought some of the Walton's glycerine (it's cake frosting thinnner) edit: here is the link to the above post about kidney damage two easy questions...glycol and "finishing the cig" __________________ November is Epilepsy Awareness Month. Last edited by momswann; 02-15-2009 at 10:29 AM.

02-16-2009, 11:43 AM	#3
momswann ECF Veteran Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 90	Thanks so much. YOu are always right there with an answer! __________________ November is Epilepsy Awareness Month.

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02-15-2009, 09:06 PM	#2
Kate Moved On Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: UK Posts: 7,355	Jaaxx wrote a post recently about glycerine and how it was made. Not all glycerine is of vegetable origin but if it's USP grade it doesn't matter. I haven't heard about kidney damage with glycerine, Katink's reply on that thread suggests that it's not a big concern.

02-16-2009, 08:26 PM	#4
udave Fantastic Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Midland, Texas Posts: 139	Polyethylene Glycol was the one that could cause kidney problems. In fact, PEG is the active ingredient in laxatives and it says right on the bottle NOT to use the laxative if you have kidney problems. Everything I have read so far points to food grade glycerine being safe.

05-11-2009, 05:05 PM	#7
JoeSmog Full Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 22	Check out herbalsoapbyrj.com/glycerin-msds.htm. This is not good. PG and VG are likely going to cause moderate to serious harm given the amount of 'consumption' that occurs with vaping. I hate this after investing over $100 dollars and doing it for a week.. I got strange feelings, tightness of chest, heart palpitations and tingling.. that's when I hit this health topics thread and started doing some DD.

05-11-2009, 05:09 PM	#8
JoeSmog Full Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 22	Also.. www .jtbaker.commsds/englishhtml/p5029.htm excerpt: 8. Exposure Controls/Personal Protection Airborne Exposure Limits: AIHA Workplace Environmental Exposure Level (WEEL): Polypropylene glycols: 8-hour TWA: 10 mg/m3, as an aerosol Ventilation System: A system of local and/or general exhaust is recommended to keep employee exposures below the Airborne Exposure Limits. Local exhaust ventilation is generally preferred because it can control the emissions of the contaminant at its source, preventing dispersion of it into the general work area. Please refer to the ACGIH document, Industrial Ventilation, A Manual of Recommended Practices, most recent edition, for details. Personal Respirators (NIOSH Approved): For use with solids (not required for liquids): If the exposure limit is exceeded and engineering controls are not feasible, a half facepiece particulate respirator (NIOSH type N95 or better filters) may be worn for up to ten times the exposure limit or the maximum use concentration specified by the appropriate regulatory agency or respirator supplier, whichever is lowest.. A full-face piece particulate respirator (NIOSH type N100 filters) may be worn up to 50 times the exposure limit, or the maximum use concentration specified by the appropriate regulatory agency, or respirator supplier, whichever is lowest. If oil particles (e.g. lubricants, cutting fluids, glycerine, etc.) are present, use a NIOSH type R or P filter. For emergencies or instances where the exposure levels are not known, use a full-facepiece positive-pressure, air-supplied respirator. WARNING: Air-purifying respirators do not protect workers in oxygen-deficient atmospheres. Skin Protection: Wear protective gloves and clean body-covering clothing. Eye Protection: Use chemical safety goggles. Maintain eye wash fountain and quick-drench facilities in work area. Be careful folks.. very careful.

05-11-2009, 06:18 PM	#10
JoeSmog Full Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 22	Point(s) taken, but we need to take into account the amount/density of the chemicals we are talking about. I've not done any sort of computation to relate the density of the PG when vaping to those values indicated in the MSDS, but obviously the amounts of vapor we are consuming is very high and at a high rate of frequency every day. Again, I just recommend that people educate themselves. I've vaped for a week and it worked as for curbing my desire for a real cig, but the aforementioned physical side effects I cannot live with. Per the MSDS, VG it seems is going to be worse than PG, unfortunately ( I bought a half gallon online last week. Makes a great skin softener so not a total loss I've got some friends in the BioTech industry that I'm going to help with my DD on this subject. DO be careful. Be wary also of those that discount any risk to vaping PG or VG as many here seem to have financial interests before health interests.