Oils and Atomizers - E-Cigarette Forum

Sunshyn · 03-14-2009, 05:19 AM

I absolutely love the flavors which often seem to be only available as a oil. I'd *really* like to use some of the oil flavors I have here, but being quite broke at the moment means being very stingy about going through atomizers any quicker than i need to.

Why exactly is it that oil based liquids are so bad for atomizers? Does someone have any technical knowledge about what it is about oil which tends to kill them? Seems like it could be the part about an oil being insoluble in water and therefore they can't be cleaned well. Anyone know?

There are additives which allows oil-based and water-based materials to combine. They are called emulsifiers and seem to be commonly used in food preparation as well as a number of other industries. An emulsifier can bind both water and oils. Soap uses an emulsifier so it can remove grease. If the reason the atomizers have such a hard time with oil is because oils gunk it up and can't be cleaned off, something like that may actually work.

I was never particularly good at chemistry. I've no idea how an emulsified liquid would vape or react with humans. It does seem that my recollection that vitamin E is an emulsifier is correct, and I know that one is edible. Besides, an MD once told me to rub vitamin E capsule contents on scars to make them fade away eventually so it may sooth damaged lungs. Granted, tiny amounts should be all that is needed, so I doubt that would make any difference. There are many different emulsifiers and types thereof, and I guess some react differently than others. I'd probably stick with the food ones and was thinking of testing the idea when I have an atomizer to spare, unless someone sees obvious flaws in it?

Sun Vaporer · 03-14-2009, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunshyn

I absolutely love the flavors which often seem to be only available as a oil. I'd *really* like to use some of the oil flavors I have here, but being quite broke at the moment means being very stingy about going through atomizers any quicker than i need to.

Why exactly is it that oil based liquids are so bad for atomizers? Does someone have any technical knowledge about what it is about oil which tends to kill them? Seems like it could be the part about an oil being insoluble in water and therefore they can't be cleaned well. Anyone know?

There are additives which allows oil-based and water-based materials to combine. They are called emulsifiers and seem to be commonly used in food preparation as well as a number of other industries. An emulsifier can bind both water and oils. Soap uses an emulsifier so it can remove grease. If the reason the atomizers have such a hard time with oil is because oils gunk it up and can't be cleaned off, something like that may actually work.

I was never particularly good at chemistry. I've no idea how an emulsified liquid would vape or react with humans. It does seem that my recollection that vitamin E is an emulsifier is correct, and I know that one is edible. Besides, an MD once told me to rub vitamin E capsule contents on scars to make them fade away eventually so it may sooth damaged lungs. Granted, tiny amounts should be all that is needed, so I doubt that would make any difference. There are many different emulsifiers and types thereof, and I guess some react differently than others. I'd probably stick with the food ones and was thinking of testing the idea when I have an atomizer to spare, unless someone sees obvious flaws in it?

Sunsyn--Just think of Oils as the nasty grease on your grill that you can not get off or in your stove--if it is not water soluable--it will build up fast on the coil and will not come off--simply put it will burn your atomizer out real quick---and IMO no flavor is worth that--Hope that clarifies--Sun

Sunshyn · 03-14-2009, 05:35 AM

So, in other words, adding an emulsifier so that the oil becomes water soluble and we're set?

Sun Vaporer · 03-14-2009, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunshyn

So, in other words, adding an emulsifier so that the oil becomes water soluble and we're set?

No matter what you add to oil--oil is oil and it bad news to work with--go ahead and use it and burn though a couple of atomizers and you will see what we are talking about--if it is oil--don't use it please for your sake--Sun

Sunshyn · 03-14-2009, 05:45 AM

Hm... just figured out that vitamin E may well just make water-based soluble in oil. If so I'd need a different emulsifier to do the reverse and make oil-based soluble in water. Shouldn't be too hard to test before using it in an e-cig at all. Just see if the result washes away easily or not...
I probably shouldn't be doing research at almost 2am.

Sunshyn · 03-14-2009, 05:57 AM

Sun Vaporer, haven't you used soap and water to break up grease? That soap apparently contains an emulsifier. People who wish to cook using oils in items which normally couldn't mix with it are apparently use an emulsifiers as well.

Nicfits · 03-14-2009, 06:08 AM

It depends on what kind of flavorings you are talking about. Take Lorann candy flavorings for example, they are called oils, but are very much soluable in water. The flavoring oils like these from Lorann are used in homemade e-juice. I Believe Totally Wicked sells Lorann Flavorings for DIYers, along with their unflavored nic juice. check out Lorannoils.com

Though I haven't tried it, and someone correct me if I am wrong, I have also heard that you can use essential oils from herbs as well. Just make sure it is marked as Food grade, (FG) Check out the other essential oils from Lorann oils

It is my understanding that with these types of flavorings, the term oil is used instead of extracts. Again I could be wrong, It is just what I have read.

booboo · 03-14-2009, 06:45 AM

I have vaped vitamin E oil. It actually worked pretty good for a while and made my lips feel really soft. Don't think my lungs thought much of it, and though my atomizer lasted quite a while (longer than I thought), it tasted kinda like burnt vegetable oil or something and eventually was too gummed up to use. Granted, I didn't boil it or really try to clean it, just ran a couple new carts through til it wouldn't put out any more. It did make my lungs feel heavy, even though I imagined it doing a bunch of healing in there. As for emulsifier, I think both vg and pg count as that, don't they?

kinabaloo · 03-14-2009, 06:51 AM

My take on it is that I basically agree with the points you made. Atomisers die eventually because of the repeated heating and cooling. (The lifetime varies because of the resence of not of slight imperfections in the heating wire that cause a particular part of the wire to overheat.) So go ahead and add a little bit into the mix.

Too much oil left in the atomiser will not cause it to fail, but it might cause it to lose effectiveness if it does build up, in which case wash out with detergent (emulsifier) and rinse well then dry well.

Have a spare on hand. The worst that could happen is you lose 10 dollars.

Sunshyn · 03-14-2009, 05:45 PM

Kinabaloo, have you used detergent to wash out your atomizer? Did it leave a bad taste behind?

03-14-2009, 05:19 AM	#1
Sunshyn Senior Member ECF Veteran Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: CT, USA Posts: 151	Oils and Atomizers I absolutely love the flavors which often seem to be only available as a oil. I'd really like to use some of the oil flavors I have here, but being quite broke at the moment means being very stingy about going through atomizers any quicker than i need to. Why exactly is it that oil based liquids are so bad for atomizers? Does someone have any technical knowledge about what it is about oil which tends to kill them? Seems like it could be the part about an oil being insoluble in water and therefore they can't be cleaned well. Anyone know? There are additives which allows oil-based and water-based materials to combine. They are called emulsifiers and seem to be commonly used in food preparation as well as a number of other industries. An emulsifier can bind both water and oils. Soap uses an emulsifier so it can remove grease. If the reason the atomizers have such a hard time with oil is because oils gunk it up and can't be cleaned off, something like that may actually work. I was never particularly good at chemistry. I've no idea how an emulsified liquid would vape or react with humans. It does seem that my recollection that vitamin E is an emulsifier is correct, and I know that one is edible. Besides, an MD once told me to rub vitamin E capsule contents on scars to make them fade away eventually so it may sooth damaged lungs. Granted, tiny amounts should be all that is needed, so I doubt that would make any difference. There are many different emulsifiers and types thereof, and I guess some react differently than others. I'd probably stick with the food ones and was thinking of testing the idea when I have an atomizer to spare, unless someone sees obvious flaws in it?

03-14-2009, 06:45 AM	#8
booboo Super Member ECF Veteran Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 462	I have vaped vitamin E oil. It actually worked pretty good for a while and made my lips feel really soft. Don't think my lungs thought much of it, and though my atomizer lasted quite a while (longer than I thought), it tasted kinda like burnt vegetable oil or something and eventually was too gummed up to use. Granted, I didn't boil it or really try to clean it, just ran a couple new carts through til it wouldn't put out any more. It did make my lungs feel heavy, even though I imagined it doing a bunch of healing in there. As for emulsifier, I think both vg and pg count as that, don't they? __________________

03-14-2009, 06:51 AM	#9
kinabaloo PV Master ECF Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: london uk / beijing china Posts: 3,395	My take on it is that I basically agree with the points you made. Atomisers die eventually because of the repeated heating and cooling. (The lifetime varies because of the resence of not of slight imperfections in the heating wire that cause a particular part of the wire to overheat.) So go ahead and add a little bit into the mix. Too much oil left in the atomiser will not cause it to fail, but it might cause it to lose effectiveness if it does build up, in which case wash out with detergent (emulsifier) and rinse well then dry well. Have a spare on hand. The worst that could happen is you lose 10 dollars. Last edited by kinabaloo; 03-14-2009 at 06:57 AM.

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03-14-2009, 05:35 AM	#3
Sunshyn Senior Member ECF Veteran Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: CT, USA Posts: 151	So, in other words, adding an emulsifier so that the oil becomes water soluble and we're set?

03-14-2009, 05:45 AM	#5
Sunshyn Senior Member ECF Veteran Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: CT, USA Posts: 151	Hm... just figured out that vitamin E may well just make water-based soluble in oil. If so I'd need a different emulsifier to do the reverse and make oil-based soluble in water. Shouldn't be too hard to test before using it in an e-cig at all. Just see if the result washes away easily or not... I probably shouldn't be doing research at almost 2am.

03-14-2009, 05:57 AM	#6
Sunshyn Senior Member ECF Veteran Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: CT, USA Posts: 151	Sun Vaporer, haven't you used soap and water to break up grease? That soap apparently contains an emulsifier. People who wish to cook using oils in items which normally couldn't mix with it are apparently use an emulsifiers as well.

03-14-2009, 06:08 AM	#7
Nicfits Super Member ECF Veteran Supporting Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 403	It depends on what kind of flavorings you are talking about. Take Lorann candy flavorings for example, they are called oils, but are very much soluable in water. The flavoring oils like these from Lorann are used in homemade e-juice. I Believe Totally Wicked sells Lorann Flavorings for DIYers, along with their unflavored nic juice. check out Lorannoils.com Though I haven't tried it, and someone correct me if I am wrong, I have also heard that you can use essential oils from herbs as well. Just make sure it is marked as Food grade, (FG) Check out the other essential oils from Lorann oils It is my understanding that with these types of flavorings, the term oil is used instead of extracts. Again I could be wrong, It is just what I have read.

03-14-2009, 05:45 PM	#10
Sunshyn Senior Member ECF Veteran Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: CT, USA Posts: 151	Kinabaloo, have you used detergent to wash out your atomizer? Did it leave a bad taste behind?