Li-Ion Batteries - THE TRUTH

[ApOsTle51]

No trickle charge is applied because lithium-ion is unable to absorb overcharge. A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell would causes plating of metallic lithium that could lead to instabilities and compromise safety. Instead, a brief topping charge is provided to compensate for the small self-discharge the battery and its protective circuit consume. Depending on the battery, a topping charge may be repeated once every 20 days. Typically, the charge kicks in when the open terminal voltage drops to 4.05V/cell and turns off at a high 4.20V/cell.

excerpt from http://batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm

[tribalmasters]

Originally Posted by asidrave

thanks for posting this Magnus...ive said in many posts its not necessary to charge the batteries for 6, 10 or 12 hours...even for the first time..

once the charger light turns green...its done...no more charging needed...period. of course there may be some exceptions...such as a battery that may be at the end of its life

ive have never had a problem with the battery being undercharged...my 6 batteries last consistently for 3 to 4 hours...depending on how much i vape.

i dont think it matters which battery from which manufacturer...i have both a DSE 801 and DSE 901..i charge them the same...once the light is green..its done

that goes for any Li-Ion and Li-Po battery

Your not the first one to say that or the second nor will you be the last to say the batteries do not need an initial 8+ hour charge!

[tribalmasters]

Originally Posted by ApOsTle51

No trickle charge is applied because lithium-ion is unable to absorb overcharge. A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell would causes plating of metallic lithium that could lead to instabilities and compromise safety. Instead, a brief topping charge is provided to compensate for the small self-discharge the battery and its protective circuit consume. Depending on the battery, a topping charge may be repeated once every 20 days. Typically, the charge kicks in when the open terminal voltage drops to 4.05V/cell and turns off at a high 4.20V/cell.

excerpt from Charging lithium-ion batteries

My Lenovo laptop does that, if the charge is 95 - 100 percent the charging does not take place but once it drops below it charges back up to 100 percent again and turns off! I haven't seen it happen in the ecig charger yet but I will catch it one day!

[ApOsTle51]

boink.

STICKY ME PLEASE

[Letzin Hale]

Old NiCad type batteries needed charging for 8-24 hours when first charged, but they have hardly been used in small electronic devices (cellphones, MP3 players etc) for the last 10 years. Even so, the myth regarding the first charge lingers on and not just with end users but with some manufacturers who should know better.
Lithium-ion batteries are completely different and do not need the mega first charge.
The first charge isn't any different from the 2nd, third, or 74th charge with lithium-ions. These batteries have built in circuits to automatically turn charging on and off, so there is no point in doing all the normal rituals with charging it before using it, charging it for XX hours etc etc. If you have a lithium-ion, you're clear, no matter what the manual says. The XX hour first charge myth is left over from times with other battery types, and isn't relevant.
Another myth, and a bad one. The only purpose ever in discharging a lithium-ion battery is to reset it's timer, so to display a more correct estimate for remaining battery time. Other than that, discharging your battery completely before recharging actually hurts the battery, as it's not designed to do so. Lithium-ions have a optimal life span when charged to about 3.92V, while 4.2V is max - and not recommended for extended periods of time. Also, charging a battery from 0% to 70% takes less time than to charge it from 70% to 100%, due to the charge method of such batteries.

Bottom line is that you should charge your battery often, and not max it out each time. It's better to charge it almost full many times than to fully charge it one time, in fact it might seriously increase the life span of the battery if you charge it randomly.

The charging time is controlled by the microprocessors that each one has built into it, along with the 'warning' flashes when charging is required. The DSE103 and other similar batteries do lose some punch when +70% discharged which is a combination of battery quality and programming of the processor. Anyone notice that when Intellicig launched the EVO last November the batteries came in for a lot of praise for their charge length and the way that one draw was normal and the next non-existent with the battery flashing and asking to be charged? That is down to the programming (75%) and battery quality (25%).
Alan.

[bizzyb0t]

A couple of years ago, when I lived in Texas, I got a chance to talk face-to-face with the guy that helped create the technology for li-ion batteries.

Faculty Bios - Cockrell School of Engineering at The University of Texas at Austin

I believe everything in the first post is correct based on the what Dr. Goodenough explained to me.

You guys should e-mail him and ask him questions about li-ion batteries. I have no reason to believe that these Chinese chargers and batteries are dangerous, we would have heard about exploding e-cigs a long time ago. Consider this, most li-ion batts and chargers are already produced in China and the technology is not difficult to implement.

I firmly believe that the green light means it's charged, regardless of what people say-- simply because the battery's technology doesn't allow for a "trickle charge". There's no need to "condition" li-ion batteries, either.

[lec666]

Originally Posted by ApOsTle51

No trickle charge is applied because lithium-ion is unable to absorb overcharge. A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell would causes plating of metallic lithium that could lead to instabilities and compromise safety. Instead, a brief topping charge is provided to compensate for the small self-discharge the battery and its protective circuit consume. Depending on the battery, a topping charge may be repeated once every 20 days. Typically, the charge kicks in when the open terminal voltage drops to 4.05V/cell and turns off at a high 4.20V/cell.

excerpt from (link removed)

i think the problem is we are over discharging our batteries. those articles do state a single discharge below %20 will end a battery's life. take into consideration of how many batteries have you seen the led light up when it's not even connected to anything?(sensor too sensitive) also need to consider the drip factor. i'd like to see a poll by everyone here who has bum batteries and see how many folks see juice in the battery as any excess always finds it's way down to the battery. that's how i lost my first 801 battery. a tiny bit of excess juice in the battery creating a dielectric leak and the led would stay lit. i managed 2 or 3 successful attempts at drying/blowing it out and then poof.....i could smell burnt electronics.

[CCAREY]

I was on the sites you discuss before finding yours. I was trying to figure out why a green light didn't mean fully charged on a new battery...but meant fully charged after being used...it just didn't make sense. I'm so glad I'll be able to use my e-cigs sooner than 8 hours from now!!! yay - thanks for the info.
C

[asidrave]

i now have in my arsenal: 601 e-pipe, e-cigars, minipipe, and an 801 with plenty of batteries for each.

once the charger light is green...its done charging the battery...doesn't matter which charger for my hardware batteries.

green = good to go

[808kicks901hits]

Originally Posted by Letzin Hale

Old NiCad type batteries needed charging for 8-24 hours when first charged, but they have hardly been used in small electronic devices (cellphones, MP3 players etc) for the last 10 years. Even so, the myth regarding the first charge lingers on and not just with end users but with some manufacturers who should know better.
Lithium-ion batteries are completely different and do not need the mega first charge.
The first charge isn't any different from the 2nd, third, or 74th charge with lithium-ions. These batteries have built in circuits to automatically turn charging on and off, so there is no point in doing all the normal rituals with charging it before using it, charging it for XX hours etc etc. If you have a lithium-ion, you're clear, no matter what the manual says. The XX hour first charge myth is left over from times with other battery types, and isn't relevant.
Another myth, and a bad one. The only purpose ever in discharging a lithium-ion battery is to reset it's timer, so to display a more correct estimate for remaining battery time. Other than that, discharging your battery completely before recharging actually hurts the battery, as it's not designed to do so. Lithium-ions have a optimal life span when charged to about 3.92V, while 4.2V is max - and not recommended for extended periods of time. Also, charging a battery from 0% to 70% takes less time than to charge it from 70% to 100%, due to the charge method of such batteries.

Bottom line is that you should charge your battery often, and not max it out each time. It's better to charge it almost full many times than to fully charge it one time, in fact it might seriously increase the life span of the battery if you charge it randomly.

The charging time is controlled by the microprocessors that each one has built into it, along with the 'warning' flashes when charging is required. The DSE103 and other similar batteries do lose some punch when +70% discharged which is a combination of battery quality and programming of the processor. Anyone notice that when Intellicig launched the EVO last November the batteries came in for a lot of praise for their charge length and the way that one draw was normal and the next non-existent with the battery flashing and asking to be charged? That is down to the programming (75%) and battery quality (25%).
Alan.

This is really interesting as I was always under the impression that li-ion batteries had some sort of "memory" (bad analogy) regarding it's capacity and that is maintained by always discharging fully and then recharging it back up fully. Though it does make sense not to fully charge the battery making it operate at a voltage higher than the recommended operating voltage; are you saying that it's better not to discharge it fully?