Idea for atomiser cleaning (die-hard version)

[kinabaloo]

After some more use, I can now see that the whiteish color of the coil has changed to shiny silver.

However, inside the coil the material is still black (I am assuming it was white originally).

[surbitonPete]

The great thing is that with everyone experimenting... eventually someone is going to find the perfect cleaning method that works for everyone and isn't so hit and miss. Haven't tried this one yet... but fingers crossed.

[kinabaloo]

Yes, it's quite unusual, we are working things out together and have some influence on the manufacturers and suppliers

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

I'm going to try a vinegar cycle on my coffee pot - I've got a dead atomizer and one that's starting to go (decreased vapor production). I'll just put them upright in the basket filter and let the vinegar/water run through...

Will post results here.

[kinabaloo]

Vicks - some coffe machines distill the water, so the vinegar would be lost. I'd suggest putting it in vinegar in the glass jar on the hot plate to simmer away for 1/2 hour or so. Also, as vinegar is not that strong, it would be best to not dilute it.

[kinabaloo]

Some notes for techies :

1) Was wondering if the moments that i ran the atomiser while submerged in vinegar had a bearing on the success. One would expect electrolysis - and gas, that might break up the deposits. Not sure if the nichrome is insulated with enamel.

Furthermore, if not insulated, does the resistance of the atomiser go down as the carbon based deposits (as we generally hypothesise them to be) partially short out the coil?

2) I was experimenting with pencil lead as a a coil replacement. A fine pencil lead can indeed be made red hot easily i found; seemed promising at first but they go kaput within minutes. Presumably because they oxidise rapidy at the high temperature. So - if the deposits are carbon based, why don't they oxidise (to CO2) ? Is this what the cleaning cycle attempts to do? Perhaps someone can test the conductivity of the deposits by keeping some bits and testing it with a multimeter. If it is mostly carbon, or with a substantial carbon fraction, H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) plus heat might break it down very well because it's a very good source of oxygen for oxidation reactions.

[exogenesis]

Good idea, but I'd guess not a vast amount of electrolysis went on,
cos I'd think there'd only be a tiny voltage across the liquid within the coil space.

Approximately : coil is 1 ohms, current flow is around 1 amp (battery internal resistance is
say 3.5 ohms and 4.5 volts), giving only 1 volt drop across the coil.

Also I don't think the wire is insulated - it doesn't have to be since nichrome forms it's own insulating
oxide layer (thickish in molecular terms), so that 1 volt is probably across the solder blobs,
not within the coil space.

The carbon from partly oxidised organic residue is unlikely to be very electrically conductive (if at all),
- unlike the pure graphite carbon in pencil 'lead'.

The clean-cycle seems to be a rubbish attempt to fully burn the deposit away.

I wonder if anyone has tried 20 vol H2O2 yet (hot or not) ?

Certainly hot caustic significantly loosens & partly dissolves the carbon deposit.
Probably it also futher passivates any metal surfaces - unlike any prolonged
acid treatment, which is likely to dissolve thin wires eventually.

But then if a vinegar hot plunge, or whatever, brings it back to usability,
then this is a good trade-off for an eventual failure.

[kinabaloo]

Exogenesis - good points.

I mentioned electrolysis only as part of a complete account but it was only briefly and not with intent; it would have little effect anyway as you say.

You are quite right about the conductivity of the organic carbon deposits not having significant conductivity as the atoms are not aligned as in graphite. I had forgotten that.

Thinking over this issue, I should have carried out a brief first step that I suggest be done before any other cleaning: a quick wash in saopy water then rinse, to remove any oils that would otherwise insulate the coil from cleaning chemicals. However, this would pre-saturate the core so following up the soapy wash (washing up liqiud) with a dry out by activating the atomiser in short bursts till it begins to glow again (indicating that the water has evaporated) would be best.

So a complete cleaning treatment might be proposed as: soapy wash (1 minute), hydrogen peroxide wash, acid wash (such as neat clear vinegar). (I suggest to oxidise the deposits before performing the acid wash) Doing these washes with hot / simmering temperatures (~80-95C) should mean that 1/4 to 1/2 hour would be sufficient time.

H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) is a very effective oxidiser; although harsh to skin it is not toxic. The easily obtained 3% solution is to be recommended as higher concentrations might well exhibit metal corrosion. Excellent info on H2O2 here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide

An acid is best suited to cleaning inorganic deposits (limescale being a common example, the water used in flavoring bases might not be distilled) and an alkali* best for inorganic deposits. The atomiser deposits are likely a mix of the two.

(* two good alkalis for cleaning organic deposits are sodium hydroxide and tri-sodium phosphate, but are caustic so use requires great care and may damage surfaces.)

Although an H2O2 wash to first oxidise the deposits should increase the cleaning efficacy of the acid wash, I have found that the vinegar wash to be sufficient by itself. However, in severe cases, the two-step protocol is advisable.

[Adik Ted]

Would twirling a piece of sandpaper round a nail and 'filing' down the atomiser bridge do any good.

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

Originally Posted by kinabaloo

Exogenesis - good points.

I mentioned electrolysis only as part of a complete account but it was only briefly and not with intent; it would have little effect anyway as you say.

You are quite right about the conductivity of the organic carbon deposits not having significant conductivity as the atoms are not aligned as in graphite. I had forgotten that.

Thinking over this issue, I should have carried out a brief first step that I suggest be done before any other cleaning: a quick wash in saopy water then rinse, to remove any oils that would otherwise insulate the coil from cleaning chemicals. However, this would pre-saturate the core so following up the soapy wash (washing up liqiud) with a dry out by activating the atomiser in short bursts till it begins to glow again (indicating that the water has evaporated) would be best.

So a complete cleaning treatment might be proposed as: soapy wash (1 minute), hydrogen peroxide wash, acid wash (such as neat clear vinegar). (I suggest to oxidise the deposits before performing the acid wash) Doing these washes with hot / simmering temperatures (~90-95C) should mean that 1/4 to 1/2 hour would be sufficient time.

H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) is a very effective oxidiser; although harsh to skin it is not toxic. The easily obtained 3% solution is to be recommended as higher concentrations might well exhibit metal corrosion. Excellent info on H2O2 here: Hydrogen peroxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An acid is best suited to cleaning inorganic deposits (limescale being a common example, the water used in flavoring bases might not be distilled) and an alkali* best for inorganic deposits. The atomiser deposits are likely a mix of the two.

(* two good alkalis for cleaning organic deposits are sodium hydroxide and tri-sodium phosphate, but are caustic so use requires great care and may damage surfaces.)

Although an H2O2 wash to first oxidise the deposits should increase the cleaning efficacy of the acid wash, I have found that the vinegar wash to be sufficient by itself. However, in severe cases, the two-step protocol is advisable.

Too technical for this back-woods chickie - I'm going to try dancing naked in the pale moonlight while chanting like a gregorian monk and waving fresh chicken feet around the atomizers.....

So - Agitate in dishsoap for 1 minute, then bathe in hot peroxide for 30 minutes and then soak in hot white vinegar for another 30 minutes? Drain and allow to dry completely, then heat using either a manual switch or suck like crazy?