Idea for atomiser cleaning (die-hard version) - Page 4 - e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat

exogenesis · 03-24-2009, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Vaporer

--You can get a very good look at that coil with the atomizer still assembled. You can get a very good look under a strong light. Cost is about 3 dollars at Staples---Sun

Only with certain e-cig models, e.g. the super-mini, but the DSE901 coil is a long way up the barrel.
Which is my main problem, since I have 901's, to determine if a coil is
visibly clean I have to dismatle & then it's unlikely to go back together

kinabaloo · 03-24-2009, 08:06 PM

I hold the magnifier so that it directs a strong beam of light into the tube while at the same time allowing me to see the magnified image.

My original expeiment was done with the atomiser out of the tube; something i already had to hand.

kinabaloo · 03-25-2009, 05:16 AM

Decided that a full-on clean should have an extra step - an alcohol wash.

So:

1) detergent ('washing up' liquid) in warm water (remove oils)
2) hydrogen peroxide (oxidise the organics) *heated best (can buy at a chemist/pharmacy)
3) vinegar (or cola, though vinegar is stronger; remove the oxides and minerals) *heated best
4) alcohol (dissolves some of the remaining solids and eases off the rest so can be rinsed away)
5) rinse (distilled water best)
6) blow out or dry (blow from battery connector end)
7) prime atomizer with VG, PG or e-juice ready to vape (drip in a few drops from cartridge end)

quick version: just steps 1 and 3 plus the rinse, dry and prime

if you don't wait for a completely dry atomizer at stage 6, allow a few minutes for vaping to become normal/better when you begin vaping

anyone with an ultrasonic bath can add this to the regime. i suggest after step 4

use when a loss of efficacy is noted. the whole shebang should take no more than an hour, although in cases where the atomizer is in a bad way, take longer over each wash.

the deposits are a melange of various stuff; if we can eat away at the structure enough, it will be weakened and then what's left will come off. It might not be till you start vaping again that the coil will become (completely) shiny.

Jimbob · 03-26-2009, 01:14 AM

So much work to keep these things working properly, I sometimes wonder if it is worth the manhours, but if you like it then it isn't work

I still find the only way to truly get these things running like new is boiling them.
1) I blow them dry using an air compressor at 10-20PSI
2) Soak them in luke warm vinegar for 20 mins to loosen debris
3) Place in a screen "dipped" I made inside of a pot on the stove (to keep the atomizer upright, but away from the bottom of the pot)
4) Heat the pot to a slow boil (slowly heating it with the atomizer in the water keeps it from expanding/contracting too fast and damaging the fit/filament
5) While slow boiling it I swish it around a little to make sure the hot water is washing through the whole unit
6) Remove from water and let cool to room temp slowly
7) Blow out with air compressor on low pressure until completely dry
8) Fill again with 6 or 7 drops of juice and a new cartridge
9) You only need to wait 10 mins (as long as you got it dry in step 7) and it works immediately like new

I've been trying to automate the process with surgical tubing, a glass bottle with water/vinegar to heat, and my air compressor to pressurize the whole thing to 10PSI so a steady but slow flow of water/vinegar passes through it for about 10 mins. I've got it working and it is MUCH easier and faster then the boil method (plus the water doesn't need to be as hot since it is flowing the whole time) but if only I could make a nice plastic mold to put on say 3 or 4 atomizers at once with rubber stoppers and sell the puppy as a quick and easy mans cleaner.

Maybe Ludo would be interested? I saw the thread where he wanted device ideas and offered royalties. Heck, this would be the first and ONLY atomizer cleaner designed solely for atomizers on the market. Plug it in, let it clean/dry them and come back at your leisure to refill

kinabaloo · 03-26-2009, 01:30 AM

Jimbob - That might really sell. It's a good idea - so it's a pity you just told everyone - you might see it on the trade-east website tomorow

btw, I think you dont need the pressure aspect. However, cycling the cleaning fluid is a nice touch.

I think it's best to use neat vinegar; otherwise i think your protocol is quite similar - because the main part of mine is the vinegar wash.

I have developed a way to feed juice to an atomiser for a week, say (~10ml) and requires no change in the atomiser (it being like a super-cart in effect). It solves the big nuisance factor of vaping that still exists even if run on a USB passthrough. And it's not as easy as you might think. But so far no real interest from manufacturers. Is Ludo from Janty - i didnt contact him but sent an email to janty maybe 2 weeks ago; no reply yet.

I also thought of creating 'cleaning juice'. And that is still a possibility.
And lots of other ideas ...

And I so much regret coming a bit late to the party. I heard of e-cigs when i was in beijing 20 months ago. And I would so much have loved to have been the person who first said to the factory can you make 10,000 901s in different colors, just for me

Small change, proved so popular.

What will be next ? What can I (or you) make happen next ?

Jimbob · 03-26-2009, 01:58 AM

You are right, the pressure is just a way for me to work around not having real equipment.
Ideally steam works best on these... I used to have a system setup to pump slowly heated water/vinegar steam through a tube through the atomizer, and WOW. Almost instant clean and it never hurt the thing. What I envision and it would be easy is something like the below picture. the bottom is filled with your water/vinegar solution (boiling it distills it so no minerals build up), the steam passes through rubber nozzles on the top of it to seal around the atomizers different sizes, and as the steam comes out it it condenses on the lid and drips back into the basin again. Add a 5 minute timer and you can set it, and walk away.
The only problem with it is the drying of the atomizer. Adding a little motor to blow air in through the side of the box after the heat is turned off and force air through those nozzles would do the trick.
So basically the timer turns on the steam for 5 mins, then turns off the steam and on the drier. Come back in 20 minutes and all the work is done for you. Perfectly clean atomizers and no hazzle or mess. The same thing could be done with water instead using a simple 3$ fish tank motor if steam wasn't desireable.

s5.tinypic.com/b9i3k8.jpg
Ludo, where are you Ludo?

kinabaloo · 03-26-2009, 02:02 AM

There might be similar kit already out there for someting else. Like say, film developing. You might get one cheap now everyone uses digital.

I think you can design a nice little usb device from your idea jimbob

I must say i see no great merit in steam or boiling - though i do think it is good to use hot vinegar. After all, the atomiser is making steam all the time. It's the acid tat does the work, and it does it more efficiently/faster when hot. Because the coil wire is very fine, i cant recommend steam bubbles, high pressures or things like shaking with sand or salt inside.

But the disposable atomiser is already here and might be the future (atomiser and cart in one). That's something to consider. The actual coil is dead cheap to make (materials-wise anyway).

Jimbob · 03-26-2009, 02:13 AM

If they can get the price down to say 50 cents for an atomizer it may be worth it, but I still feel like a #&^$% throwing away tons of garbage for no reason other then something being mis-designed.
I wish manufacturers would fess up and admit that ANY juice will clog ANY atomizer and design a fix. It's just life. Everything leaves some residue when it boils except distilled water.

Sun Vaporer · 03-26-2009, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinabaloo

Decided that a full-on clean should have an extra step - an alcohol wash.

So:

1) detergent ('washing up' liquid) in warm water (remove oils)
2) hydrogen peroxide (oxidise the organics) *heated best (can buy at a chemist/pharmacy)
3) vinegar (or cola, though vinegar is stronger; remove the oxides and minerals) *heated best
4) alcohol (dissolves some of the remaining solids and eases off the rest so can be rinsed away)
5) rinse (distilled water best)
6) blow out or dry (blow from battery connector end)
7) prime atomizer with VG, PG or e-juice ready to vape (drip in a few drops from cartridge end)

quick version: just steps 1 and 3 plus the rinse, dry and prime

if you don't wait for a completely dry atomizer at stage 6, allow a few minutes for vaping to become normal/better when you begin vaping

anyone with an ultrasonic bath can add this to the regime. i suggest after step 4

use when a loss of efficacy is noted. the whole shebang should take no more than an hour, although in cases where the atomizer is in a bad way, take longer over each wash.

the deposits are a melange of various stuff; if we can eat away at the structure enough, it will be weakened and then what's left will come off. It might not be till you start vaping again that the coil will become (completely) shiny.

kinabaloo--I have an 801 and a RN4072 assembled, and an RN4072 unassembled in the vinegar hot bath right now--will give it 30 minutes and report. With the unassembled I will be able to see the coil results right away ----Sun

kinabaloo · 03-26-2009, 02:19 AM

Hi Sun,

If the coil is not shiny at first, you need to add some VG to it and use it (vape) for 5-10 minutes. That's when i found the deposits actually came off after being weakened by the vinegar.

03-24-2009, 08:06 PM	#32
kinabaloo ECF Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: london uk / beijing china Posts: 3,304	I hold the magnifier so that it directs a strong beam of light into the tube while at the same time allowing me to see the magnified image. My original expeiment was done with the atomiser out of the tube; something i already had to hand. Last edited by kinabaloo; 03-24-2009 at 08:12 PM.

03-25-2009, 05:16 AM	#33
kinabaloo ECF Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: london uk / beijing china Posts: 3,304	Decided that a full-on clean should have an extra step - an alcohol wash. So: 1) detergent ('washing up' liquid) in warm water (remove oils) 2) hydrogen peroxide (oxidise the organics) heated best (can buy at a chemist/pharmacy) 3) vinegar (or cola, though vinegar is stronger; remove the oxides and minerals) heated best 4) alcohol (dissolves some of the remaining solids and eases off the rest so can be rinsed away) 5) rinse (distilled water best) 6) blow out or dry (blow from battery connector end) 7) prime atomizer with VG, PG or e-juice ready to vape (drip in a few drops from cartridge end) quick version: just steps 1 and 3 plus the rinse, dry and prime if you don't wait for a completely dry atomizer at stage 6, allow a few minutes for vaping to become normal/better when you begin vaping anyone with an ultrasonic bath can add this to the regime. i suggest after step 4 use when a loss of efficacy is noted. the whole shebang should take no more than an hour, although in cases where the atomizer is in a bad way, take longer over each wash. the deposits are a melange of various stuff; if we can eat away at the structure enough, it will be weakened and then what's left will come off. It might not be till you start vaping again that the coil will become (completely) shiny. Last edited by kinabaloo; 03-25-2009 at 08:58 AM.

03-26-2009, 01:30 AM	#35
kinabaloo ECF Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: london uk / beijing china Posts: 3,304	Jimbob - That might really sell. It's a good idea - so it's a pity you just told everyone - you might see it on the trade-east website tomorow btw, I think you dont need the pressure aspect. However, cycling the cleaning fluid is a nice touch. I think it's best to use neat vinegar; otherwise i think your protocol is quite similar - because the main part of mine is the vinegar wash. I have developed a way to feed juice to an atomiser for a week, say (~10ml) and requires no change in the atomiser (it being like a super-cart in effect). It solves the big nuisance factor of vaping that still exists even if run on a USB passthrough. And it's not as easy as you might think. But so far no real interest from manufacturers. Is Ludo from Janty - i didnt contact him but sent an email to janty maybe 2 weeks ago; no reply yet. I also thought of creating 'cleaning juice'. And that is still a possibility. And lots of other ideas ... And I so much regret coming a bit late to the party. I heard of e-cigs when i was in beijing 20 months ago. And I would so much have loved to have been the person who first said to the factory can you make 10,000 901s in different colors, just for me Small change, proved so popular. What will be next ? What can I (or you) make happen next ? Last edited by kinabaloo; 03-26-2009 at 03:34 AM.

03-26-2009, 02:02 AM	#37
kinabaloo ECF Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: london uk / beijing china Posts: 3,304	There might be similar kit already out there for someting else. Like say, film developing. You might get one cheap now everyone uses digital. I think you can design a nice little usb device from your idea jimbob I must say i see no great merit in steam or boiling - though i do think it is good to use hot vinegar. After all, the atomiser is making steam all the time. It's the acid tat does the work, and it does it more efficiently/faster when hot. Because the coil wire is very fine, i cant recommend steam bubbles, high pressures or things like shaking with sand or salt inside. But the disposable atomiser is already here and might be the future (atomiser and cart in one). That's something to consider. The actual coil is dead cheap to make (materials-wise anyway). Last edited by kinabaloo; 03-26-2009 at 02:16 AM.

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03-26-2009, 01:14 AM	#34
Jimbob Full Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 21	So much work to keep these things working properly, I sometimes wonder if it is worth the manhours, but if you like it then it isn't work I still find the only way to truly get these things running like new is boiling them. 1) I blow them dry using an air compressor at 10-20PSI 2) Soak them in luke warm vinegar for 20 mins to loosen debris 3) Place in a screen "dipped" I made inside of a pot on the stove (to keep the atomizer upright, but away from the bottom of the pot) 4) Heat the pot to a slow boil (slowly heating it with the atomizer in the water keeps it from expanding/contracting too fast and damaging the fit/filament 5) While slow boiling it I swish it around a little to make sure the hot water is washing through the whole unit 6) Remove from water and let cool to room temp slowly 7) Blow out with air compressor on low pressure until completely dry 8) Fill again with 6 or 7 drops of juice and a new cartridge 9) You only need to wait 10 mins (as long as you got it dry in step 7) and it works immediately like new I've been trying to automate the process with surgical tubing, a glass bottle with water/vinegar to heat, and my air compressor to pressurize the whole thing to 10PSI so a steady but slow flow of water/vinegar passes through it for about 10 mins. I've got it working and it is MUCH easier and faster then the boil method (plus the water doesn't need to be as hot since it is flowing the whole time) but if only I could make a nice plastic mold to put on say 3 or 4 atomizers at once with rubber stoppers and sell the puppy as a quick and easy mans cleaner. Maybe Ludo would be interested? I saw the thread where he wanted device ideas and offered royalties. Heck, this would be the first and ONLY atomizer cleaner designed solely for atomizers on the market. Plug it in, let it clean/dry them and come back at your leisure to refill

03-26-2009, 01:58 AM	#36
Jimbob Full Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 21	You are right, the pressure is just a way for me to work around not having real equipment. Ideally steam works best on these... I used to have a system setup to pump slowly heated water/vinegar steam through a tube through the atomizer, and WOW. Almost instant clean and it never hurt the thing. What I envision and it would be easy is something like the below picture. the bottom is filled with your water/vinegar solution (boiling it distills it so no minerals build up), the steam passes through rubber nozzles on the top of it to seal around the atomizers different sizes, and as the steam comes out it it condenses on the lid and drips back into the basin again. Add a 5 minute timer and you can set it, and walk away. The only problem with it is the drying of the atomizer. Adding a little motor to blow air in through the side of the box after the heat is turned off and force air through those nozzles would do the trick. So basically the timer turns on the steam for 5 mins, then turns off the steam and on the drier. Come back in 20 minutes and all the work is done for you. Perfectly clean atomizers and no hazzle or mess. The same thing could be done with water instead using a simple 3$ fish tank motor if steam wasn't desireable. s5.tinypic.com/b9i3k8.jpg Ludo, where are you Ludo?

03-26-2009, 02:13 AM	#38
Jimbob Full Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 21	If they can get the price down to say 50 cents for an atomizer it may be worth it, but I still feel like a #&^$% throwing away tons of garbage for no reason other then something being mis-designed. I wish manufacturers would fess up and admit that ANY juice will clog ANY atomizer and design a fix. It's just life. Everything leaves some residue when it boils except distilled water.

03-26-2009, 02:19 AM	#40
kinabaloo ECF Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: london uk / beijing china Posts: 3,304	Hi Sun, If the coil is not shiny at first, you need to add some VG to it and use it (vape) for 5-10 minutes. That's when i found the deposits actually came off after being weakened by the vinegar.