BT buying e cig maker? - Page 7 - E-Cigarette Forum

LaceyUnderall · 11-07-2009, 06:45 PM

Apostle - Another great find!

There's no doubt, when we go back in history and look at all of the vapor producing products, the ecig was bound to happen.

Now.... why didn't it happen?

1. Price in comparison to cigarettes at the time would have probably been outrageous.
2. Price for manufacturing in the US would have been probably outrageous. We certainly didn't have China back then to make any of the goods we do now.
3. Conspiracies... from the tobacco industry to the anti-smoking campaign... who knows! But I am sure there are tons galore.

Oooo... this is getting interesting.

taz3cat · 11-07-2009, 07:07 PM

Ruyan Group Holding, is not legally a Chinese company. It is traded on the Hong Kong Stock market, but it is Incorporated in the Cayman Islands. I find this very interesting.

RUYAN GROUP (HOLDINGS) LIMITED
如烟集團(控股)有限公司
(Incorporated in the Cayman Islands with limited liability)
(Stock Code: 329)

http://www.ruyangroup.com/upload/new..._Ann090310.pdf

BuzzKill · 11-07-2009, 08:14 PM

HON,LIK (I assume he is with Ruyan ?) has 4 pending app's
590,990 - 590,991 - 590,989 - 590,988 the last 2 are for power supply battery , the first 2 are for the cig

FYI

Later
buzz

BuzzKill · 11-07-2009, 08:32 PM

I found an even older patent reference from 1954 !! it's a simulated cigar using a lamp LMAO , but the Gilbert patent ref's it pat. # 2,696,382 by A.Gelardin.

This looks like the very beginning of the evolution ?? .

Later
Buzz

Thought this would be interesting for history purposes ?

abaldwin360 · 11-09-2009, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VapingRulz

My worry is that the government will slap an enormous "sin tax" on e-cigs and juice. The more popular e-cigs become, the more likely it is that both BT and the government will want their cut - especially when they start to see tax revenues dry up as smokers turn instead to vaping.

This is what I'm afraid of, besides the fact that I'm no longer inhaling smoke, the e-cigarette route seems to be cheaper in the long run, that could change soon.

Vocalek · 11-09-2009, 03:36 AM

If the Judge in SE & NJOY Vs. FDA rules that e-cigarettes are a tobacco product, we need to keep this in mind:

Quote:

Collected User Fees
The Tobacco Control Act authorized the Agency to collect user fees from manufacturers and importers of cigarettes, cigarette tobacco, roll-your-own tobacco, and any other tobacco product subject to Chapter IX - Tobacco Products of the FD&C Act. FDA has started collecting user fees.

These fees are huge. I can't see the retailers having the $$$ to jump in and play tobacco company. So perhaps if BT does buy out the product, it is a way to keep it alive.

LaceyUnderall · 11-09-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vocalek

If the Judge in SE & NJOY Vs. FDA rules that e-cigarettes are a tobacco product, we need to keep this in mind:

These fees are huge. I can't see the retailers having the $$$ to jump in and play tobacco company. So perhaps if BT does buy out the product, it is a way to keep it alive.

Isn't their fee schedule based on weight of tobacco? Imagine how much "weight" of tobacco is in a bottle of liquid!?! Or a cartridge?

JohnandMe · 11-09-2009, 08:37 PM

I think its based on what share of the US Market each tobacco company has..so Altria is 50%.
Altria to pay millions in tobacco user fees | Richmond Times-Dispatch

Here's the FDA's project fee schedule too:

The FDA will collect about $23 million for fiscal 2009. That will rise to $235 million in 2010 and grow to $712 million by 2019.

LaceyUnderall · 11-10-2009, 02:06 PM

Tobacco Product Fees

Ok... so they aren't very clear... and JohnandMe, I am not saying you are wrong but I have learned not to trust any media, regardless. I have even seen the most newsworthy get it wrong... so I have to go to the source.

Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

To me, it looks like this is a two fold user fee: First, you would be assessed your classification of products and then second your market share. If your classification of products exceeds your market share, then you pay the market share amount. Does that sound right (based on the link above) ?!?

How confusing!

Bill Godshall · 11-10-2009, 05:40 PM

When I called Tiffany Ellis at (510) 230-3947 to talk to her about her article on PM negotiating with Ruyan, after ten rings I was transferred to the voice mail of a person named "Jim" whose voice mailbox was full.

And the two e-mail addresses listed for Tiffany Ellis ui@jquery.com and
gualtmarketing@gmail.com appear suspect, but I'll try e-mailing her.

11-07-2009, 06:45 PM	#61
LaceyUnderall USA Supplier Forum Sponsor ECF Veteran Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: US and Canada Posts: 2,711	Apostle - Another great find! There's no doubt, when we go back in history and look at all of the vapor producing products, the ecig was bound to happen. Now.... why didn't it happen? 1. Price in comparison to cigarettes at the time would have probably been outrageous. 2. Price for manufacturing in the US would have been probably outrageous. We certainly didn't have China back then to make any of the goods we do now. 3. Conspiracies... from the tobacco industry to the anti-smoking campaign... who knows! But I am sure there are tons galore. Oooo... this is getting interesting. __________________ INSTEAD Electronic Cigarettes and Blog \| I Support the Electronic Cigarette Association \| Right To Vape - A Consumer Organization Defending Your Right To Use a Personal Vaporizer

11-07-2009, 07:07 PM	#62
taz3cat Ultra Member ECF Veteran Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Port Arthur, Texas Posts: 1,159	Ruyan Group Holding, is not legally a Chinese company. It is traded on the Hong Kong Stock market, but it is Incorporated in the Cayman Islands. I find this very interesting. RUYAN GROUP (HOLDINGS) LIMITED 如烟集團(控股)有限公司 (Incorporated in the Cayman Islands with limited liability) (Stock Code: 329) http://www.ruyangroup.com/upload/new..._Ann090310.pdf __________________ actions speak louder than words, do a iittle everyday to save our PV's

11-10-2009, 02:06 PM	#69
LaceyUnderall USA Supplier Forum Sponsor ECF Veteran Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: US and Canada Posts: 2,711	Tobacco Product Fees Ok... so they aren't very clear... and JohnandMe, I am not saying you are wrong but I have learned not to trust any media, regardless. I have even seen the most newsworthy get it wrong... so I have to go to the source. Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress) To me, it looks like this is a two fold user fee: First, you would be assessed your classification of products and then second your market share. If your classification of products exceeds your market share, then you pay the market share amount. Does that sound right (based on the link above) ?!? How confusing! __________________ INSTEAD Electronic Cigarettes and Blog \| I Support the Electronic Cigarette Association \| Right To Vape - A Consumer Organization Defending Your Right To Use a Personal Vaporizer

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11-07-2009, 08:14 PM	#63
BuzzKill Registered Supplier Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Central Ca. Posts: 303 Tweet this post!	HON,LIK (I assume he is with Ruyan ?) has 4 pending app's 590,990 - 590,991 - 590,989 - 590,988 the last 2 are for power supply battery , the first 2 are for the cig FYI Later buzz

11-07-2009, 08:32 PM	#64
BuzzKill Registered Supplier Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Central Ca. Posts: 303 Tweet this post!	I found an even older patent reference from 1954 !! it's a simulated cigar using a lamp LMAO , but the Gilbert patent ref's it pat. # 2,696,382 by A.Gelardin. This looks like the very beginning of the evolution ?? . Later Buzz Thought this would be interesting for history purposes ?

11-09-2009, 08:37 PM	#68
JohnandMe Full Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 45	I think its based on what share of the US Market each tobacco company has..so Altria is 50%. Altria to pay millions in tobacco user fees \| Richmond Times-Dispatch Here's the FDA's project fee schedule too: The FDA will collect about $23 million for fiscal 2009. That will rise to $235 million in 2010 and grow to $712 million by 2019.

11-10-2009, 05:40 PM	#70
Bill Godshall Executive Director Smokefree Pennsylvania Supporting Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 238	When I called Tiffany Ellis at (510) 230-3947 to talk to her about her article on PM negotiating with Ruyan, after ten rings I was transferred to the voice mail of a person named "Jim" whose voice mailbox was full. And the two e-mail addresses listed for Tiffany Ellis ui@jquery.com and gualtmarketing@gmail.com appear suspect, but I'll try e-mailing her.