Reporter Takes a Cheap Shot at Suppliers of E-Cigs??

[KitP]

Originally Posted by LaceyUnderall

Hi Kit -

Thanks for weighing in on this. I am with INSTEAD Electronic Cigarette - Buy e Cigarettes - e Cig. I did do a google search, as you requested in your post, for e-cigarette. Did you see our website as #4? Did you also see a video there from us? We would have been more than thrilled to send you in the right direction.

Please also take notice that this very forum appears as #3. I understand you are given limited funds and limited time but I am still extremely curious how your research led you to nJoy and Smoking Everywhere?

Yup. Notice the "Buy" part of your page title. That identified you to me as a retailer. Since this was intended to be a product review, I was not looking for retailers. I just looked at that site again. It's labeled directly as a blog at the very top, which generally holds that it is the "web log" (Which originates from "diary") of an individual non-authoritative source. With no time to trace the authoritativeness of sources outside registered businesses, the site was left behind.

This forum was of moderate use, but the amount of data on this forum far exceeded the time I had to look online due to the lack of structure. This forum also helped to point out that there are numerous retailers with various mixes of reviews, but also the fact that there were many mentions of the same brand and models (DSE 801, 901, and 103 for example) being sold by multiple retailers. This meant that I had to find the source of these actual items, not the retailers.

SE was on the first page of the search results. NJoy was in the local knowledgebase in the sense that local people had seen it at Flying J.

Looking at SE resulted in finding nothing but people complaining about being taken advantage of and feeling gypped. Contacting SE resulted in a runaround from hell.

Looking at NJoy resulted in generally "They are like the overpriced premium stuff, but not as bad as SE". NJoy was very happy to talk with me and send.

[wv2win]

Kit, thank you for taking the time to come to this forum and address your article. I understood where Sun was coming from in his first comments on your article. Knowing that you only had a few days to do your research and write the article makes more sense, now. When most of us think of reporting, we think "Dateline", 6 month investigation, lol. Since all the products are manufactured in China, trying to get the "back end" story would be very difficult. And if you have read much on this forum, you can tell that many us feel their is a "Catch 22" with e-cigs. On the one hand we would love for it to go mainstream, with improved, reliable products, consistently good service, low prices and in every big box store and corner market. On the other hand, we are all afraid that if too much attention is brought to this new product that the "quit or die" fanatics will do everything to ban the product and all we will be left with is our terrible habit. But if you have the time to hang around this forum long enough, you will find that we are mostly a good bunch of folks trying to help each other out and find a good alternative to a difficult addiction. And you might even get some very good information for another story.

Good Luck,
wv2win

[Kate]

Hi Kit, welcome to the forum.

Janty might be worth talking to, they are pretty progressive. Their boss, Ludo is a member of the forum.

Another member, David Yang, says he has a stake in a manufacturing business.

Here are some manufacturers:
electronic cigarette,e-cigarette,Joye Technology
Shenzhen Kanger Technology And Development Co.,Ltd--Electronic Cigarette,Ecigarette,
Welcome to Sailebao Technology Co., Ltd.
Shenzhen Smoore S&T Co., Ltd.
SHENZHEN FIRST UNION TECHNOLOGY CO.,LTD.

These are the only eliquid makers I know of:
Cigarette electronique pour arreter de fumer - Cybercig - Recharge nicotine et patch anti tabac (France)
µÂ¿µÉúÎï¿Æ¼¼ÓÐÏÞ¹«Ë¾ (China)
www.Freesmoke.eu (Spain)
Johnson Creek Original Smoke Juice - The Best E-Liquid in the World - Made Right Here in America (USA)

[LaceyUnderall]

Kit -

I am willing to accept that I wouldn't have followed your path to the finished piece.

But if I may: The electronic cigarette industry is really coming together. There are several very strong suppliers who have customer service and product safety as main concerns.

Personally, I am in this to ensure that myself and fellow smokers have an alternative to smoking tobacco. While the jury is still out on the scientific data, I choose to no longer be held hostage by tobacco and then hung for with the bill from big pharm.

Now that you have learned we are an extremely active group and we will hunt you down , please take some time to paruse the forum. Have a visit to our supplier forums. You will see that there is definitely an e-cig community and while our brands may be small, we are all good people attempting to help our fellow smokers move on from their hold by BT.

Thanks for your time and I do look forward to your follow up article.

Edit: Kate added excellent data there. Thanks Kate!

[jamie]

Originally Posted by KitP

the income from a given article in most news sources allows for approximately two to four total hours dedicated to the creation of that article at most.

... even more reason to repeat my prior comments directly to the author - one of the best ecig articles I've read, and a pretty balanced and thorough look at the current state of ecigs. From this hard core user: Thank You Very Much and Good Job!

Originally Posted by KitP

along with the "Quit or Die" style fanatics on the opposing side, there are also a number of fanatics on the supporting side.

Yup.

Originally Posted by wv2win

On the one hand we would love for it to go mainstream.... On the other hand, we are all afraid that if too much attention is brought to this new product that the "quit or die" fanatics will do everything to ban the product and all we will be left with is our terrible habit.

Yup squared!

[KitP]

Originally Posted by LaceyUnderall

Kit -

I am willing to accept that I wouldn't have followed your path to the finished piece.

But if I may: The electronic cigarette industry is really coming together. There are several very strong suppliers who have customer service and product safety as main concerns.

Personally, I am in this to ensure that myself and fellow smokers have an alternative to smoking tobacco. While the jury is still out on the scientific data, I choose to no longer be held hostage by tobacco and then hung for with the bill from big pharm.

Now that you have learned we are an extremely active group and we will hunt you down , please take some time to paruse the forum. Have a visit to our supplier forums. You will see that there is definitely an e-cig community and while our brands may be small, we are all good people attempting to help our fellow smokers move on from their hold by BT.

Thanks for your time and I do look forward to your follow up article.

Edit: Kate added excellent data there. Thanks Kate!

Please understand also that I personally support e-Cigs, keeping in mind that I don't smoke even. At the same time, I can't just be fully supportive in an article lest it display an unwarranted bias.

The community is there. The product is strong. The opposition will be intense. Right now it's flying beneath the radar, which unfortunately lends credence to some of the opposition's arguments.

Who is seeking regulatory approval? NJoy claims they are. Anybody else? Keep it small and risk having it be called a dirty little secret and attacked for that, or get it big and see what results. There's no telling. There's no indication of the manufacturers trying to get whitelisted.

As for research, there's a lot more of it done than what goes into an article.

Apparently to get kudos with this crowd, the idea is to be less expensive than NJoy and have better service guarentees. After researching the costs of raw parts in bulk, the complexity involved in the liquids, and seeing single-unit supply chain prices allowing for a markup to just $50 for a kit and internal guarentee handling being completely reasonable, you can possibly see why there are accusations of shady doings by some folks.

I could point out in the article for example, that your e-cig.org store is selling a generic branded (Super Cigarette) DSE103 for $99 (on discount from a "regular price of $139"), with a 3-month warranty on batteries and chargers and only guarenteeing that the atomizer is not DOA, 6 day guarentee. No satisfaction guarentee and a 20% restocking fee on unopened items. Carts for these are at $50 for 20 carts, making it $2.50/cart.

However, given that people are complaining about NJoy being overpriced at $20 lower normal price online than yours, and their carts being 20% less costly than yours, as well as NJoy carrying a 30-day full money back guarentee, registration with the BBB and the only complaint against them being resolved, and a 12-month warranty on Batteries, chargers, AND atomizers... Well, if I pointed that sort of thing out in the article, you'd be liable to get a worse reputation than NJoy.

If you really want to be in the actual article, I'd have to slam you for your pricing and policies.

So, again, I am VERY happy to work with people who are on the retail side of things and also fact-gatherers, but I am required to look at all the factors directly and look at it from an end-user point of view, not somebody who is in this community.

[TropicalBob]

Did you ever go to an out-of-town football game, Kit, and find the only ticket left was for a seat in the "local" bleachers? Here, you're in the "local" bleachers and there's only one side to cheer. Goooooo e-cigs!

You gave a good explanation of why you wrote what you wrote. And, in journalistic terms, it's not a "clarification" or "correction" or "retraction." It is an explanation; I spent 45 years in journalism to reach an understanding of how frustrating it can be when authoritative sources won't return calls and all you're left with is press releases.

It took courage to even post your response, Kit. Cheers to you for that. Now, dig into the "Legal" section on this forum and have some fun reading.

[LaceyUnderall]

Kit -

We are all open to our own opinions. I strongly disagree with your position on the industry, but your evaluation of the e-cig is fair. The thread was about "cheap shots". Hence my original comments.

My pricing is what it is and my customers are extremely happy with their service. And please, if you are going to quote our policies, include everything: "Our goal is to have happy and referring customers. If you are unhappy with anything, whether or not you are a customer, please contact us with your questions or comments. Thank you." Shipping & Returns : Instead Electronic Cigarette, Buy e Cigarettes & Electric Cig Accessories

We are working on our pricing, but we are not bank-rolled like the big guys. You can call us expensive, but don't call us shady.

[TropicalBob]

Lacey, that kind of post belongs exclusively in the Supplier forum. Imagine it from, say, Trog. Sorry, but you're doing blatant promotion in this general forum thread.

[LaceyUnderall]

TB - I am sorry you feel that way. It was simply self defense.