After being harrased by the cops

[Rexa]

But the 'charge' in this case might have nothing to do with smoking laws. From the OP's statement.......it would appear that he was on private property owned by the restaurant. If that was the case, and he was asked by a member of staff to desist, then there is a case to answer. It really doesn't matter whether he was using an e-cig or picking his nose, the restaurant would have the right to ask him to stop. If he then refused and the police were called as a result......

The above is just reading between the lines, but it does make sense of a non-sensical situation.

That is kind of true. If you are on the sidewalk outside of a restaurant I *think* it's still considered their property. If they don't have tables outside of course no one will bother you from smoking/vaping/picking your nose outside in front of the establishment but if they have permits to seat people outside and have the seating out there then believe it or not the restaurants have jurisdiction over what they allow. For analog smokers you have to actually stand several feet from the outside tables according to some laws including in New York City. It is kind of tricky because obviously people who pass by and are not patrons of the restaurant can smoke while they walk by but if you're a patron of the restaurant you need to keep a clear distance. Not a lot of restaurants really adhere to this but I have encountered a few who do though. I was told even though I was outside the seating divider almost standing out by the street to move.

I don't want to get into the debate of ecigs being allowed because the above being said is about the jurisdication that restaurants have over their patrons. Granted the police may have attacked a different subject altogether but they may change their stance and just say that the OP was causing disorderly conduct which is well within their right to do.

I think if people are all out to raise awareness or to try and get away with vaping that they need to be clearer on laws and who has what jurisdiction while your on their premises. It's not only about laws it also about the rights of what the owners of these places have over you regardless if something is well within the law to do. A restaurant can simply ask you to leave if they think you are dressed inappropriately irregardless if you're sitting inside or outside or out of plain view. There is no law on how you should dress though is there? So the ecig applies here too, there is no law banning the use of it but if they want to ask you to leave and you don't listen and still do your thing it's perfectly legal for them to remove you.

[GreySaber]

kgonepostl, where do you live?

I was at a Sonic smoking regular cigarettes with some guys and talking about cars.... No one complained. Course this is Georgia...

[bard]

Rexa has a very valid point - the old statement "the management reserve the right to refuse admission" is what we're looking at here; you're on their property, they can make the rules.

This is why, when in a bar or other public place, I always first have a quick word with a member of staff to explain that I'm not smoking, but am using my personal vapouriser, and that I wanted them to know in case someone else thought I was smoking a real cigarette, and made a complaint. That extra little bit of courtesy to the owner of the establishment has always worked well for me so far. No refusals from anyone, and hence, no trouble from any other customers.

Of course, any owner would be within their rights to say they would rather I didn't. COnsider times before the smoking ban - there were still places which didn't allow smoking. At the end of the day, it's their choice, and as a guest (paying or otherwise) on their property, we must respect that.

[ISAWHIM]

A restaurant can simply ask you to leave if they think you are dressed inappropriately irregardless if you're sitting inside or outside or out of plain view. There is no law on how you should dress though is there?

That is only half correct... They MUST have it published, in clear view, to be legal or enforceable. Otherwise it is discrimination. By sign, or contract, or public notice.

SIGN: "No refunds", for instance... is fine, but certain items and services are still subject to a refund, even with a sign.

SIGN: "Dress code...", must be present, or you may frequent within the dress-code of the law. (For restaurants, shoes/sandals, shirts/blouses, and pants/skirts required.)

SIGN: "No Jews", obviously not enforceable even if posted or not posted, on public property. (On private property, like a home or non-business, this is allowable. But not in any public or private business.)

Private business, is one which has no public access, such as a road-paving company, bridge-repair, landscaping, construction contractor. If it has a public-access area, it is a public business, and public property. (For liability reasons and for law reasons.)

There is one exception to the rule... "Private Clubs", which are "Limited public access". They can impose specific limitations that are beyond the scope of public business law. Such as, they can allow smoking inside, and drinking, and stripping, and gambling, with the adequate permits.

When you register with the state/government as a business, you agree to "Public sales law", and "US currency law". You will not refuse service to anyone, without just cause. You will not refuse US currency for any reason, for "All debits public and private", as indicated on US federal bank-notes.

Failure to follow those, and other "Business" rules, is a violation of US policy. You are given the right to sell, using US currency, if you follow those rules.

Businesses are not their own kingdoms. Private businesses are not "Private sales", as they must sell to the public, which requires "Public access", which requires, "Public space", thus, making the sale-area, "Public property".

There are things a business can, and can't say, enforce, do, and not be breaking the law themselves. (Just because they do it, does not justify the actions. Civil infractions can be handled on the spot, by any individual, but can only be enforced by an officer of the law, and can only be tried by a judge in the event of question.)

Once these e-cigs become more understood, and accepted, you will see new laws form, or more public knowledge of what you can't enforce with these products. (It will take years before these can rightfully be banned like cigarettes. However, it could take years before these are accepted as "Not-smoking", as long as visible smoke-like vapor emanates from them. That is the other reason I dilute with distilled water... less vapor seen, and more nicotine in my mouth.)

Also note... non-gated business driveways and parking-lots, are "Public access", areas also. If you speed, you can get a ticket on private property, while driving on a private-drive that is not-gated. This is what makes it legal for employees and delivery vehicles to use them without fear of being arrested for trespassing. However, a private home-driveway, without a gate, is private property, and this is why delivery vehicles do not have rights to enter the driveway, except in emergency, or with permission through contract. (However, if you fall and hurt yourself... you must sue the private owner, for faulty or neglectful care of the public access drive. Should that be the case. EG, you would not sue the state for being hurt on public property.)

[Wynterbourne]

That is only half correct... They MUST have it published, in clear view, to be legal or enforceable. Otherwise it is discrimination. By sign, or contract, or public notice.

This is technically correct in most areas. However, I believe you may be confusing Civil Law with Criminal Law.

In Texas, if the owner of the property (or representative thereof) asks you to leave, and you do not, you're committing an offense known as Criminal Trespass. It doesn't matter why I ask you to leave, to be perfectly frank I don't have to explain my reason to either you or the police. The moment I ask you're under the legal obligation to leave. If you fail to do so I can physically eject you from the property. If you resist (and I don't feel like a physical altercation, normally for legal purposes) I can contact local law enforcement and have you ejected from the property and, in most cases, press charges for Criminal Trespass.

Whether or not you are actually arrested at the time of the offense is normally determined by your attitude and physical condition (intoxicated, etc...) when the officer is removing you from the property.

Now, when it's all said and done you can scream about how unfair it is, about how you were discriminated against, until the cows come home. You can picket my business, you can file a complaint with the appropriate regulatory office, you can appear on Fox News and tell your story to the public. Heck, you can even file a civil suit in court if you can locate/fabricate enough evidence to go to trial.

But you're still going to be dealing with a Criminal Trespass charge.

[JJames68]

I was looking at the new janty thing, could just tell someone that was an inhaler, maybe that is what we should rename them, that way when someone asks, you say this is just my inhaler

[GreySaber]

I was looking at the new janty thing, could just tell someone that was an inhaler, maybe that is what we should rename them, that way when someone asks, you say this is just my inhaler

In the woodshop at the scupture building, my professor asked if I was smoking. I said "No. This is not a cigaratte. It is a machine."

[trashling]

I have the ScrewDriver and I also own a '67 VW Bus .. I am anxiously awaiting the day that a cop pulls up next to me and I can take a hit off my crack pipe!" Someone will probably have to bail me outta jail but it will be something to tell the grandkids.

[nibb]

You can for sure Sonics. This is serious harassment, that is ilegal.

You cant just call the police for someone you dont like and isnt doing anything wrong.

harassment is ilegal and that is what I heard from the idiot from sonic and from the police as well withou giving you 2 minutes to explain which is heavy abuse or police force. They cannot just fire and then ask if someone is guilty.

[RandallFlagg]

I am sooooooooooo sick of the ignorance out there and the anti smoker BS it just makes me so mad.

I prefer the term, "Tobaccophobic."