dues to high

[MrBrown]

That is insane. Sorry all, but I don't care how much money my business makes, there is NO WAY I would spend 5k to join a group that says it is non-profit. Especially if they are asking for a $500.00 application fee.

I can join almost any other non-profit organization for less then $300 a year and am then welcomed to increase my donation. Sure an increased donation would give me a higher sponsor level and maybe a plaque but no one insists on a minimum of $800 up front. Aside from obviously stunting the growth of the organization this type of elitism bars most concerned individuals from participating.

Has any of the "members" (preferably the ones that are not involved with handling the money) asked for a financial breakdown of expenditures and costs? Every licensed non-profit is required to supply upon request a statement of where there money is being spent. This is how United Way got busted for paying its management a million dollars a year.

Anyway, rant aside, I don't know the group but think the membership structure and fees are insane and a formula for failure.

[Elendil]

Not sure where you live, but thats definitely on the very low side. I used to own and operate Kiosks all throughout Texas, and my rent was never under $1500/mo, even at the 'ghetto' malls.

I do not claim to be an expert. My daughter is employed at one of the malls I quoted the 400-600/mo rate for. It was a number she got from the mall when a friend wanted to set up a kiosk to sell cell phone accessories.........The mall in our area is not a "ghetto" mall, but not a huge one either. There are about 50 stores with Sears, JCP, Bergners(CSP) and Marshall's being the "anchor" stores, although there is a Wal Mart, Home Depot, and Target immediately adjacent to the mall. I do know being in a relatively rural area that people traveling 50 miles to shop in this area is not unusual.

[nycsublimegirl]

That is insane. Sorry all, but I don't care how much money my business makes, there is NO WAY I would spend 5k to join a group that says it is non-profit. Especially if they are asking for a $500.00 application fee.

I can join almost any other non-profit organization for less then $300 a year and am then welcomed to increase my donation. Sure an increased donation would give me a higher sponsor level and maybe a plaque but no one insists on a minimum of $800 up front. Aside from obviously stunting the growth of the organization this type of elitism bars most concerned individuals from participating.

Has any of the "members" (preferably the ones that are not involved with handling the money) asked for a financial breakdown of expenditures and costs? Every licensed non-profit is required to supply upon request a statement of where there money is being spent. This is how United Way got busted for paying its management a million dollars a year.

Anyway, rant aside, I don't know the group but think the membership structure and fees are insane and a formula for failure.

I really think you are unsure of the kind of money is needed to support this effort.... is going to take more then i have ever seen that's for sure..... I am on the BOD and have nothing to do with the money end of it, but yes we know exactly where it is going...and where we need to concentrate future money. Right now we make just enough to pay policy impact basically...and that's with some board members paying even more then the highest level dues...

there is sooooooooooooooo much more we need to do! No other trade organization I can think of is literally fighting for our life like we are!

As I stated below if any size company that can meet with the requirements on the application is someone we want on our team...if money is an issue we will work it out until your businesses are the size that can meet the current min dues.

[ccure]

I just want to clarify something:

I think ECA is a good choice to save the e-cigs. I will love to support ECA as a member. I do like the possibility to use the ECA sign in my future website. I like the idea of using it also in all my future advertisements and in the box of the product. I love the idea to be the first ECA member in Colombia and maybe in LA. I will like the idea to promote and open an agency of ECA in Colombia for LA.

But sadlly, I can not afford to pay the application fee and the monthly fee just now.

I am investing a good deal of K trying to get the proper approvals to legaly sell the e-cigs in Colombia and in the Andean Pact, so I can not afford to pay "high fees" jsut now.

[nycsublimegirl]

I just want to clarify something:

I think ECA is a good choice to save the e-cigs. I will love to support ECA as a member. I do like the possibility to use the ECA sign in my future website. I like the idea of using it also in all my future advertisements and in the box of the product. I love the idea to be the first ECA member in Colombia and maybe in LA. I will like the idea to promote and open an agency of ECA in Colombia for LA.

But sadlly, I can not afford to pay the application fee and the monthly fee just now.

I am investing a good deal of K trying to get the proper approvals to legaly sell the e-cigs in Colombia and in the Andean Pact, so I can not afford to pay "high fees" jsut now.

Great I already emailed the BOD to contact you ..you should receive something shortly

[Kewtsquirrel]

I do not claim to be an expert. My daughter is employed at one of the malls I quoted the 400-600/mo rate for. It was a number she got from the mall when a friend wanted to set up a kiosk to sell cell phone accessories.........The mall in our area is not a "ghetto" mall, but not a huge one either. There are about 50 stores with Sears, JCP, Bergners(CSP) and Marshall's being the "anchor" stores, although there is a Wal Mart, Home Depot, and Target immediately adjacent to the mall. I do know being in a relatively rural area that people traveling 50 miles to shop in this area is not unusual.

As with all real-estate, prices will vary with location, but on average, kiosks aren't as cheap as one might think. To get an idea of upper-end prices, I used to manage a kiosk in the Fashion Show Mall in Vegas, the one right on the strip across the street from the Wynn. Our rent was upwards of $6,000 per month and it went up to over $9,000 for November/December. Thats not including the % of gross sales you're supposed to pay, it's big business.

[MrBrown]

I really think you are unsure of the kind of money is needed to support this effort.... is going to take more then i have ever seen that's for sure..... I am on the BOD and have nothing to do with the money end of it, but yes we know exactly where it is going...and where we need to concentrate future money. Right now we make just enough to pay policy impact basically...and that's with some board members paying even more then the highest level dues...

there is sooooooooooooooo much more we need to do! No other trade organization I can think of is literally fighting for our life like we are!

As I stated below if any size company that can meet with the requirements on the application is someone we want on our team...if money is an issue we will work it out until your businesses are the size that can meet the current min dues.

Not saying the group is a bad one, more that the member structure is perhaps not well thought out. And yes I know what lobbying is and how expensive it is, I've worked in DC.

Now that I have gotten over the shock of seeing your price tag for a logo I'll try to be a little more clear. I've often seen a company (yes, lobbying is a business venture) start out thinking that it would be easier to sell one unit for $100 rather then sell 100 units for $1(SE for instance). They just need that one person to click "buy" without comparing suppliers and they are golden. However this seldom works. Even if they put up a email link on their site that says to contact them for a discount most people will not bother as they still wont be willing to buy at $50.

The reasoning behind the high price is sound to a point. They won't have to hire help to process one order, they may have little competition, shipping is lower, storage will be less expensive, they wont need to spend the money on a high volume business. If only they can sell that one unit at a 1,000% price increase.

Unfortunately with this business concept and yours this seldom works. However this is what it seems to me that you are doing with your membership fees. For many of the folks running a small business that $300+ a month is a car payment, or a site overhaul to better serve their customers, or in some cases it is the difference between weather their children go to school in new cloths, or last years castoffs.

From a profit view point it is pretty well common knowledge that the lower price point not does not sell only 100 times as many units, but more likely a 1000 times as many. So really the way to bring in more money for the cause is to allow everyone the ability to join and send what they can, not just the elite who have nothing better to throw disposable income at. Most of the businesses selling the products concerned do not have disposable income at all.

Sure you can sell board seats and votes at a higher price or monthly commitment, most non profits do to one extent or another. However if you had a much lower (say $100 yearly) membership for the user and small business I'd bet you made vastly more money to support this cause. I'd even bet that the smaller businesses would be willing to give a discount to members at that rate to make it more appealing.

In the end, if everyone on this site alone sent you $10 a month, I'd bet that you would make more then you ever will with your elite level price scheme. I know it would mean more paper work, but then you did commit to run the organization right? Beyond that the numbers of active members are just as important in a lobbying effort as the amount of money you can throw around. Your members are also voters and a roll call of more than 10k members can make the difference for even getting in the door to talk to a politician.

Does my concern make sense now or am I just pointlessly ranting?

[majormom72]

If your boss can afford a Kiosk in a mall which is anywhere form 2000-4000$ a month i dont see how 300$ a month is steep!. These Fee are to help ECA as a whole push and stay ahead of issues, questions and progress the future of our business's in a positive and safe manner. Heck i am sure you get paid more then 300$ a month to sit at a Kiosk hoping to sell a ecig kit for 120$ +, talk about Steep...

Lets ask that same business owner what he pays for his yellow pages add or for electricity, shipping, workmans comp ins, employee benefits or the many other monthly expenses involved with being a business or franchise owner.

$300 a month for a newsletter and icon on your website is extremely steep, especially when you are facing the possibility of being shut down completely...I get the newsletters from ECA for free, and have yet to see any real action or information that I have not taken myself as a consumer and/or concerned citizen... I think each of us is better off representing ourselves in our own way and its pretty easy to stay on top of issues without being involved with the ECA.

If people have strong beliefs and feelings about important issues, they will stand up for them regardless of whether or not they are a paying "member" or "founder" of some organization that supports the cause.

[nycsublimegirl]

Not saying the group is a bad one, more that the member structure is perhaps not well thought out. And yes I know what lobbying is and how expensive it is, I've worked in DC.

Now that I have gotten over the shock of seeing your price tag for a logo I'll try to be a little more clear. I've often seen a company (yes, lobbying is a business venture) start out thinking that it would be easier to sell one unit for $100 rather then sell 100 units for $1(SE for instance). They just need that one person to click "buy" without comparing suppliers and they are golden. However this seldom works. Even if they put up a email link on their site that says to contact them for a discount most people will not bother as they still wont be willing to buy at $50.

The reasoning behind the high price is sound to a point. They won't have to hire help to process one order, they may have little competition, shipping is lower, storage will be less expensive, they wont need to spend the money on a high volume business. If only they can sell that one unit at a 1,000% price increase.

Unfortunately with this business concept and yours this seldom works. However this is what it seems to me that you are doing with your membership fees. For many of the folks running a small business that $300+ a month is a car payment, or a site overhaul to better serve their customers, or in some cases it is the difference between weather their children go to school in new cloths, or last years castoffs.

From a profit view point it is pretty well common knowledge that the lower price point not does not sell only 100 times as many units, but more likely a 1000 times as many. So really the way to bring in more money for the cause is to allow everyone the ability to join and send what they can, not just the elite who have nothing better to throw disposable income at. Most of the businesses selling the products concerned do not have disposable income at all.

Sure you can sell board seats and votes at a higher price or monthly commitment, most non profits do to one extent or another. However if you had a much lower (say $100 yearly) membership for the user and small business I'd bet you made vastly more money to support this cause. I'd even bet that the smaller businesses would be willing to give a discount to members at that rate to make it more appealing.

In the end, if everyone on this site alone sent you $10 a month, I'd bet that you would make more then you ever will with your elite level price scheme. I know it would mean more paper work, but then you did commit to run the organization right? Beyond that the numbers of active members are just as important in a lobbying effort as the amount of money you can throw around. Your members are also voters and a roll call of more than 10k members can make the difference for even getting in the door to talk to a politician.

Does my concern make sense now or am I just pointlessly ranting?

I just want to clarify a few things. 1) membership is only for suppliers, consumers are although encouraged to donate any amount they can to show their support as little as $5. 2) if a supplier could not afford your example of $50 a month (about the price of one kit) to help save their business ....that just seems silly to me...

I understand your theory but as we have stated numerous times that small business will be welcomed and worked with.... I don't know what else there is to say. There is also banners that one can add to the their site to show support and link to the ECA and they are free.

[Two-A-T]

1) membership is only for suppliers, consumers are although encouraged to donate any amount they can to show their support as little as $5.

This is a poor way to get support. Does the NRA (National Rifle Association) only offer "membership" to gun makers? NO. They want EVERYONE involved and they offer different levels of membership for manufacturers, suppliers AND the end consumer who is the most important link in the chain! Without the support of the CONSUMER, you have no product anyway! The ECA should be modeling their organization and membership options after organizations like the NRA! The NRA only charges $35 a YEAR for consumer memberships!!

2) if a supplier could not afford your example of $50 a month (about the price of one kit) to help save their business ....that just seems silly to me...

You obviously have not been watching the news lately. The economy is down, retail sales are down and people have LESS money. SO, what you think is "silly", the business owner, who could very likely be struggling to survive in this economy, might see as a few days of groceries for their family after all of their expenses are paid! BIG name companies are shutting down every day because the economy is breaking them.. you think ecig suppliers are immune and rolling in $$$?? You need to be more realistic!!

Plain and simple... the ECA's membership fees are only targeting the "elite" and totally ignoring the smaller suppliers and the end consumers who are the backbone of the industry!!

By the way...

Let's say you only charged $10/month for consumer memberships (which is still high compared to similar organizations).. and if you only got 50% of the 11,833 members on this site alone (and we all know there are MANY more ecig users than just HERE), you would be generating an additional $59,165/mo in membership fees without breaking the consumer's wallets!! Or, do you not need this income because your "elite" supplier members already pay so much?????