ECA vs FDA

[LaceyUnderall]

Do you and/or the suppliers have the documentation to support this? If so, this would be an incredibly BIG stick to club the FDA and ASH with. If so, it needs to be given out everywhere and to everybody to show what snobs and corrupt bast**ds these people at the FDA, government and ASH are! It would bring everyday ordinary people to our side of the argument.

Post the doc's or links here and we'll get this info out! NOW!!!

I know we attempted with phone calls... lesson learned now that hind-sight is 20/20. As for others... this is what we have discussed so I am not sure if they have it in writing or not. I would hope that IF they did, they would use this to their advantage...

At this point... I can only be pissed that we were ignored and that's about it.

[LaceyUnderall]

It really would have made no difference Lacey. People are misguided that agencies like the FDA are mandated to never change their position. That simply is not the case. New information and claims made can and will change the FDA's position.

Sun

Thank god we aren't making any claims then right?

Unfortunately for the FDA, they do have to have an act of Congress in order to do what they are trying to do (or they would have had tobacco in 1994 when they tried to grab it and failed).

[LaceyUnderall]

Maybe so. But your outcome is not 100% certain. It is one opinion. It isn't that it isn't correct, it very well could be. But it isn't 100% certain.

Only the Judge knows at this point how he is going to rule.

[harmony gardens]

I just came on the scene in April, so I wasn't aware of a lot of the things that are coming to light here now.

Are Njoy and SE both supplied by the same company, and the main difference the focus of the marketing strategy??

Who made the samples that the FDA tested?? It must have come from Ruyan, right???

In regards to the companies trying to work with the FDA and EPA,,, we are now dealing with a new administation. Perhaps there was a more lax atmosphere there at that time than we have now. (just a speculating)


As I see this all in this new light,,,I find I need to adjust my emotional attachment a bit.

I love vaping,,,, but man,,, this whole thing puts bees in your head,,, and it gets more complex at every turn.

[Sun Vaporer]

Maybe so. But your outcome is not 100% certain. It is one opinion. It isn't that it isn't correct, it very well could be. But it isn't 100% certain.

Only the Judge knows at this point how he is going to rule.

Well I do not know how else to read the definition of tobacco when it specifically states it shall not include any devices:

SEC. 101. AMENDMENT OF FEDERAL FOOD, DRUG, AND COSMETIC ACT.

(a) D

EFINITION OF TOBACCO PRODUCTS.—Section 201 of the
Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 321) is amended
by adding at the end the following:
‘‘(rr)(1) The term ‘tobacco product’ means any product made
or derived from tobacco that is intended for human consumption,
including any component, part, or accessory of a tobacco product
(except for raw materials other than tobacco used in manufacturing
a component, part, or accessory of a tobacco product).
‘‘(2) The term ‘tobacco product’ does not mean an article that
is a drug under subsection (g)(1), a device under subsection (h),
or a combination product described in section 503(g).
‘‘(3) The products described in paragraph (2) shall be subject

to chapter V of this Act.

Sun

[LaceyUnderall]

Well I do not know how else to read the definition of tobacco when it specifically states it shall not include any devices:

SEC. 101. AMENDMENT OF FEDERAL FOOD, DRUG, AND COSMETIC ACT.

(a) D

EFINITION OF TOBACCO PRODUCTS.—Section 201 of the
Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 321) is amended
by adding at the end the following:
‘‘(rr)(1) The term ‘tobacco product’ means any product made
or derived from tobacco that is intended for human consumption,
including any component, part, or accessory of a tobacco product
(except for raw materials other than tobacco used in manufacturing
a component, part, or accessory of a tobacco product).
‘‘(2) The term ‘tobacco product’ does not mean an article that
is a drug under subsection (g)(1), a device under subsection (h),
or a combination product described in section 503(g).
‘‘(3) The products described in paragraph (2) shall be subject

to chapter V of this Act.

Sun

I am not arguing with you about devices not being a part of tobacco. However, there is still the argument to be made with the FDA, that these devices are not any different than a water pipe, a larger version vaporizer etc. Those are not regulated by the FDA. There is no reason that they should be giving preference to one kind of vaporizer over another.

You could easily take loose tobacco, soak it PG and make it your wick instead of the poly filling. This would vaporize the tobacco just as the larger versions do.

[LaceyUnderall]

Lacey--that might be a good argument if NJOY and SE did not make cartridges that specifically fit thier e-cigs to deliver nicotine. There is where the problem is. To do what you are saying with the e-cig, would be to alter it by changing the cartridge and its contents. That is not what we are dealing with, rather we are dealing with the product as it is sold.

Sun

What about cartridges that are sold blank that could contain anything you want?

[SheerLuckHolmes]

It really would have made no difference Lacey. People are misguided that agencies like the FDA are mandated to never change their position. That simply is not the case. New information and claims made can and will change the FDA's position.

Sun

Who cares if it makes no difference to or with the FDA. I'm talking educating the general public, doing some general PR to get the public to see the other side of the debate and from our perspective not just the perspective and spin of the powers that be.

[quovadis]

One thing is for sure.
History repeats itself.
New ideas and new science is always scorned upon, until a major amount of money is thrown at it.
The "new" needs friends according to "Ratatouille"

Veni-Vidi-Vapi

[grimmer255]

I still see no ECA taking action. IF ASH can walk right in and hand a judge some documents and havent even been in the case at all. where the heck is ECA......I would have been in there with 20 feet worth of papers that had every person in here the ECF forum....plus the signed petition and all the independent studies done up to date. And who knows what else.