Analysis of the Black Gunk on Atomizer Coils

[markule]

Markule - thanks for that explanation, but I'm afraid it is just evading me what your exact point is.

I think you are saying that heating PG has the potential to turn it into a plastic/polymer named PPG (if enough heat is applied), and that there is a potential that harmful substances may be released into our vapur as a result. Is that right? And does the bit you highlighted suggest that 1 ounce of PPG could be fatal?

Could you break this down for us laypeople a bit more? Are you saying that potentially fatal amounts of PPG are being produced?

Just to specifically reply:
It's my hypothesis (or scientific wild a$$ guess) that he gunk is a mix of polymerization and oxidation products from the e-liquid, and it looks like PG specifically is a good candidate for this kind of reaction. In the amounts we're dealing with (that tiny bit of black gunk) this should not be harmful. The additional information indicated you would have to eat at least an ounce (1/16 of a pound, about 28 grams, or a lot) of PPG, pure, for a fatal dose. At a minimum. The amount vaporized in an e-cig is going to be, at most, micrograms (one millionth of a gram, or 1/30,000,000 of the lethal dose). The nicotine will kill you first, since it's lethal dose is close to 1 mg/kg, or 150 milligrams for a 150 kilogram human. That's just over 4 milliliters of 36 mg/mL e-juice. So, the primary hazard of PPG is to atomizers. By my guess, anyway.

We must also not forget the large body of anecdotal evidence for the relative safety of the material in e-cigarettes. OR, you aren't all dead yet, and it's bound to be better than smoking (inhallation of uncontrolled combustion products of chemically modified dried vegitable matter).

[breakfastchef]

Without an entire science lab behind us, questions about the nature, type and effective dissolving agents for the so called 'gunk' on atomizers is futile. Gunk is a natural side effect of combustion. Look inside your grill!

The cost to evaluate the effectiveness of cleaning methods would be expensive, and, did I mention, futile. I love speculation as much as the next person, but mental masturbation eventually bores me. Sorry to rain on the parade, but atomizers are throwaway items. If you can squeak out an extra week or two from a failing unit, go for it. I choose to toss them when they fail.

My recent failures with my newly built Magnum mod (6v+) turned out to be poor practice on my part. I allowed the coil to heat up to often and sometimes dripped on a steamy hot coil. Those faux pas caused premature failure of three atomizers. Well, at least I understand how to do high voltage vaping now and am at a lesser risk of burning out atomizers so quickly.

[surbitonPete]

Hi markule ....I have actually tried a couple of additives to see if I could somehow prevent the gunk becoming so solid......my first attempt was salt...my second attempt was calcium....both just made 'larger' deposits of hard black gunk with no sign of any difference to it's composition, no 'cleaners' I tried had any different effect on it. My theory had been that with salt in the mix it might actually be easier to simply wash off ...and my theory with trying calcium was that if there was more of that in the gunk perhaps the vinegar would have more effect on breaking it up. Unfortunately both ideas complete failures.

[surbitonPete]

Without an entire science lab behind us, questions about the nature, type and effective dissolving agents for the so called 'gunk' on atomizers is futile. Gunk is a natural side effect of combustion. Look inside your grill!

The cost to evaluate the effectiveness of cleaning methods would be expensive, and, did I mention, futile. I love speculation as much as the next person, but mental masturbation eventually bores me. Sorry to rain on the parade, but atomizers are throwaway items. If you can squeak out an extra week or two from a failing unit, go for it. I choose to toss them when they fail.

My recent failures with my newly built Magnum mod (6v+) turned out to be poor practice on my part. I allowed the coil to heat up to often and sometimes dripped on a steamy hot coil. Those faux pas caused premature failure of three atomizers. Well, at least I understand how to do high voltage vaping now and am at a lesser risk of burning out atomizers so quickly.

It's all very well to say that if you can afford to keep replacing atomizers..but unfortunately I can not .....if I can't find any way to improve my atomizer's life and cut down the cost's of vaping ....I can see me ending up back on tobacco..I was getting duty free tobacco before I started vaping and vaping is costing me miles more.....and it's actually more than I can afford.

[exogenesis]

Really Pete?, it's costing more to vape than smoke?

I'm truly amazed how that can be, cos even duty free
it must cost more for ciggies than 2 ml of e-liquid a day
+ an £8 atomizer per month.

[breakfastchef]

It's all very well to say that if you can afford to keep replacing atomizers..but unfortunately I can not .....if I can't find any way to improve my atomizer's life and cut down the cost's of vaping ....I can see me ending up back on tobacco..I was getting duty free tobacco before I started vaping and vaping is costing me miles more.....and it's actually more than I can afford.

How much longer would a failing atomizer need to function before it is not a significant expense to you. This device, presumably, has potentially changed your life/health for the better? If you could extend the life of an atomizer by 1 week, two weeks, three weeks; when is the cut off point where the cost now makes sense. My post merely reflects the common position that atomizers do not last forever and should be treated as disposable items. In the end, I would prefer to eat boiled chicken and rice in order to have a spare $9.00USD atomizer, and pass up the filet mignon.

[surbitonPete]

Really Pete?, it's costing more to vape than smoke?

I'm truly amazed how that can be, cos even duty free
it must cost more for ciggies than 2 ml of e-liquid a day
+ an £8 atomizer per month.

Exo......a 'week' would be an amazingly long lasting ladypipe atomizer for me....I didn't have any better luck with an evo...I have just brought 2 RN 4072 to try out in my mod ...the first one went dead on the first day...the second one has now worked for two days so far but already shows signs of loosing it's vaping ability and that's alternating with my ladypipe. ...and I am only vaping on average 3 mills a day.

Oh and I was smoking duty free tobacco....much cheaper.

[exogenesis]

Pete, maybe the question should be,
what the hell are you vaping ?

[OldBiker]

Hi Guys, just wanted to add my 2 cents. Ya'll are way ahead of me on the chemistry, so I just sorta "scanned" the posts that were heavy in that respect. I can however tell you that as far as the end of the element breaking free of the solder all you need is heat and electrical current. So losing the connection at that point may have nothing to do with the e-juice, but it's probably contributing to it though. I've seen solder deterioration many times in electronics of all sorts over the years, with early Apple Macs being some of the worst with frequent breaks of solder joints at the hi-voltage transformer for the screen (crt). Increase heat or current and you're more likely to have a problem with a solder joint. The relativly low voltage and current is probably the only reason the solder joints last any time at all considering the constant heating and cooling cycles. I realize this is a little off subject, but I wanted to comment on the solder joints mentioned on previous pages.

[surbitonPete]

How much longer would a failing atomizer need to function before it is not a significant expense to you. This device, presumably, has potentially changed your life/health for the better? If you could extend the life of an atomizer by 1 week, two weeks, three weeks; when is the cut off point where the cost now makes sense. My post merely reflects the common position that atomizers do not last forever and should be treated as disposable items. In the end, I would prefer to eat boiled chicken and rice in order to have a spare $9.00USD atomizer, and pass up the filet mignon.

I know exactly what you mean but the trouble for me at the moment is that I have become unemployed with the recession......so at the moment I have to count every penny.