Decomposition of VG to acrolein

[surbitonPete]

I am afraid one or two lab tests aren't enough to prove that under all vaping circumstances there is no acrolyn produced.....people are using higher voltage batteries...changing temperatures ....there are so many variables....to decide that a couple of reports makes you certain that there is no chance of acrolyn being produced (because the reports were done by cleverer people than us) seems a bit naive to me. Still no one is saying it's at a dangerous level...we wouldn't be vaping it if we believed that.

[Kate]

While we're talking about that test, did anyone make out what it was that they tested? It says something at the beginning about cartridges and three ingredients but isn't clear if it was the eliquid they're linking the report to that the lab looked at. Do Intellicig sell cartridges loaded with their brand eliquid?

[Nuck]

I am afraid one or two lab tests aren't enough to prove that under all vaping circumstances there is no acrolyn produced.....people are using higher voltage batteries...changing temperatures ....there are so many variables....to decide that a couple of reports makes you certain that there is no chance of acrolyn being produced (because the reports were done by cleverer people than us) seems a bit naive to me. Still no one is saying it's at a dangerous level...we wouldn't be vaping it if we believed that.

I think you misunderstood. I'm not saying its absolute proof, just that it's the best we have, and it's not just that the people at a lab are qualified, it is the type and quality of the tests they are able to perform that gives them an insurmountable advantage over any tests we could do for ourselves.

The higher voltages and altered conditions do make a difference and all we know is that under the conditions the lab used there was no acrolein produced. More tests with varied conditions will have to take place but it is a very good start and bodes well.

[surbitonPete]

While we're talking about that test, did anyone make out what it was that they tested? It says something at the beginning about cartridges and three ingredients but isn't clear if it was the eliquid they're linking the report to that the lab looked at. Do Intellicig sell cartridges loaded with their brand eliquid?

I think the report was done with cartridges loaded with ecopure..but I don't know if Intelicig actually sell pre loaded carts with it in now.

[Nuck]

While we're talking about that test, did anyone make out what it was that they tested? It says something at the beginning about cartridges and three ingredients but isn't clear if it was the eliquid they're linking the report to that the lab looked at. Do Intellicig sell cartridges loaded with their brand eliquid?

Based on the ingredients it appears it was the Ecopure fresh that was used for testing.

[Kate]

Here's the report for anyone interested in what we're talking about - http://www.intellicig.com/images/pdf...2009-04-14.pdf

[surbitonPete]

Well Nuck I think the reports are a great start .......but all we are basically doing is discussing some valid doubts that it still isn't enough to discount the possibility of any acrolyn and then people are jumping in almost telling us we shouldn't even be talking about it. Of course we don't have any way of proving anything... as you say we don't have the expertise or the equipment to make any valid tests of our own.

[kinabaloo]

If that report does say zero acrolein, I can't see it.

What it does say about the smoked results: "No clear peaks were recorded at all but inference of spectra suggests the presence of glycerol and nicotine." So I wouldn't put too much faith in what it shows.

The beauty of the test I devised with only VG and distilled water, compared with only PG and distilled water, and carried out by Exogenesis using an automatic vaping system he devised using a real atomizer, is that it shows, without elaborate equipment, that something is going on with VG that leads to a deposit. One might expect the VG to simply evaporate, as does PG. But the science tells us that when heated to boiling point, VG begins to decompose to acrolein and water. The amount of VG decomposed was estimated at under 0.1%, if I remember correctly. And only some of that will leave the atomizer in the vapor, the rest reacting and decomposing further on the heated coil to form the deposit.

[surbitonPete]

One thing is certain to me Kinaba there is a lot more going on in these atomizers at variose stages of vaping ....otherwise there wouldn't be so many changes in the vaping taste. To me you must be vaping something else when it sometimes tastes like chip fat.

[Nuck]

"In addition to these materials, an example of cigarette smoke from the cigarette was subjected to LCMS, GCMS, and NMR to test for the possibility of acrolein structures which as of the time of writing we are pleased to report have not been identified."

I took this to mean that they have not detected any acrolein with any of the tests.

I have never found 100% pure VG (I currently use 99.5% pure but I know the purity varies). There is also the issue of whether or not the Glycerin tested is coconut (or some other veg based), animal based or oil based. While not all Glycerin is VG, it appears to be common on the forums to call it VG. Any of these could account for residue rather than any breakdown results in the creation of acrolein.

The only way to solve the issue to run tests with the proper equipment.

Since PEG is only used by one supplier that I'm aware of (assuming it really is safe) the majority of people will use either VG or PG. Given the list of concerns with PG are quite long, I worry that people will be pushed away from VG based solely on what is nothing more than conjecture at this point.