Decomposition of VG to acrolein

[kinabaloo]

Hi Exo,

That's an interesting result. And means, among other things, that a juice with no gunk production should be possible. The nicotine, if included, will have to be a pure source and not a tobacco soak. Some flavorings will also be dry-deposit free.

Perhaps a small amount of VG can be used without decompositon - say, 10%. 50/50 if it does or not. If 10% is ok, maybe 20% can be tested; 20% would be enough to get some noticeable visible vapor improvement. Maybe even 50% could be tested as the original test used 90% VG if I remember correctly, which nobody actually uses.

Adding a little pure ethanol might help too in making a small fraction of VG usable without any decomposition,

Good work - takes our understanding forward and can lead to improvements in taste and atomizer lifespan

ps : I haven't seen SunVaporer post those yet; been 2 or 3 weeks now. Perhaps the water or PG was not pure, some old dry deposit in the mesh, something like that. Or perhaps a different protocol factor, such as % split. In fact, as I remember, the PG+water was vaped by a friend while SV vaped the VG+water.

[surbitonPete]

Originally Posted by exogenesis

Re-read that acrolein from glycerol in tobacco smoke,
(& even though it's from Phillip Morris) it's quite enlightening.

Having second thoughts about
'glycerol just being like any burning organic liquid on a hot coil',
specifically probably similar to PG or other carriers...

cos just now observing pure PG vaping on a fresh exposed coil (550mA)
& it seem's to be producing no burnt gunk whatsoever.

We'll see what it's like after 20 to 30 ml.

Did SunVaporer post his VG vs PG results?

That seems to point to this ecopure liquid probably being 'worse' for gunking up coils because it's all VG and not PG.

[kinabaloo]

Originally Posted by surbitonPete

That seems to point to this ecopure liquid probably being 'worse' for gunking up coils because it's all VG and not PG.

Hi Pete - That is looking to be the case, yes.

I hope it is found that a small fraction of VG can be safely used.

And as some people seemingly don't react well to PG (or perhaps an impurity), we maybe need to find an alternative that is not VG or PG.

And a form of nicotine that will volatize completely.

[exogenesis]

This is a huge difference between pure PG & pure VG,
still no deposit at all, even with trying PG flow 'too dry' and 'too wet'.

Maybe the added water changes it completely ?,
I had to add 10% DI water to the glycerol to make it flow sensibly.

Wonder if the 'less than 20% glycerol' in e.g. TW e-liquid
doesn't give as much gunk (per amount of VG) as straight
glycerol because of the bulk PG thats there as well,
something like alcohol reducing the boiling point/ heat capacity ?

Looks like I've got a few more tests to do than I thought.


Some people have allergy or other reactions to PG,
was this the only reason the lab reports seem to
recommend using VG rather than PG?

What liquid is volatile enough, non-toxic, gives no reactions for anyone,
doesn't heat-decompose and is tasteless or has a pleasant taste ?
Is PG the closest we'll come ?

[kinabaloo]

Originally Posted by exogenesis

What liquid is volatile enough, non-toxic, gives no reactions for anyone,
doesn't heat-decompose and is tasteless or has a pleasant taste ?
Is PG the closest we'll come ?

Water

Though a glycol is needed for the smoke effect. Just looking into dipropylene glycol and tripropylene glycol. Boiling points of 235C and 265C respectively. Both on quick glance seem similar to PG safety-wise but may share the same allergy problem for some. Raised B.P.s over PG but long-lasting, dense fog

Mineral oil (baby oil), that is mostly alkanes, is also used in some fog juices.

Very interesting results. Does lead to more hypothesis testing though But this is pioneering work (even if quite basic really!)

[surbitonPete]

Oh and I can't really say what the vodka did....it did make my failing mini pipe atomizer vape almost as good as new for a few days....but unfortunately it died this morning and it was my last mini pipe atomizer....I need a bit of time before I can buy any more and I am not so sure I want to risk spending more money on those.

[Kate]

Sedansa have started using PEG400 - polyethylene glycol instead of glycerine or propylene glycol.

[kinabaloo]

Pete - sorry to hear your e-pipe. Cheer you up with an interesting fact: mineral oil (baby oil) is good at removing sticky labels

Found this interesting link about safe exposure limits to theatrical fog for actors:
AEA Fog haze and Smoke Guidelines | J&M Special Effects

[exogenesis]

Now I'm going to have to go and get some PEG400 as well.

'Mineral oil' sounds a little undefined, is it a recognised 'formulation' ?
(edit: looks like a mixed-content by-product of the petroleum industry)


Any chance of you doing a dead atty dissection Pete ?

[surbitonPete]

Originally Posted by kinabaloo

Pete - sorry to hear your e-pipe. Cheer you up with an interesting fact: mineral oil (baby oil) is good at removing sticky labels

Found this interesting link about safe exposure limits to theatrical fog for actors:
AEA Fog haze and Smoke Guidelines | J&M Special Effects

That's so funny and kinda bizarre that you mention sticky labels .....I was in Halfords today and happened to buy a tin of stuff specially designed for removing sticky labels...(I buy every cleaning fluid I see these days!) in the hope it might have some cleaning effect on my coils.......needless to say it doesn't work.