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| | #21 |
| ECF Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: london uk / beijing china
Posts: 3,306
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Hi Exo, That's an interesting result. And means, among other things, that a juice with no gunk production should be possible. The nicotine, if included, will have to be a pure source and not a tobacco soak. Some flavorings will also be dry-deposit free. Perhaps a small amount of VG can be used without decompositon - say, 10%. 50/50 if it does or not. If 10% is ok, maybe 20% can be tested; 20% would be enough to get some noticeable visible vapor improvement. Maybe even 50% could be tested as the original test used 90% VG if I remember correctly, which nobody actually uses. Adding a little pure ethanol might help too in making a small fraction of VG usable without any decomposition, Good work - takes our understanding forward and can lead to improvements in taste and atomizer lifespan ![]() ps : I haven't seen SunVaporer post those yet; been 2 or 3 weeks now. Perhaps the water or PG was not pure, some old dry deposit in the mesh, something like that. Or perhaps a different protocol factor, such as % split. In fact, as I remember, the PG+water was vaped by a friend while SV vaped the VG+water. |
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| | #22 | |
| ECF Veteran Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North Yorkshire UK
Posts: 2,892
| Quote:
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| | #23 | |
| ECF Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: london uk / beijing china
Posts: 3,306
| Quote:
I hope it is found that a small fraction of VG can be safely used. And as some people seemingly don't react well to PG (or perhaps an impurity), we maybe need to find an alternative that is not VG or PG. And a form of nicotine that will volatize completely. | |
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| | #24 |
| ὅπερ ἔδει δεῖξαι Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: UK
Posts: 560
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This is a huge difference between pure PG & pure VG, still no deposit at all, even with trying PG flow 'too dry' and 'too wet'. Maybe the added water changes it completely ?, I had to add 10% DI water to the glycerol to make it flow sensibly. Wonder if the 'less than 20% glycerol' in e.g. TW e-liquid doesn't give as much gunk (per amount of VG) as straight glycerol because of the bulk PG thats there as well, something like alcohol reducing the boiling point/ heat capacity ? Looks like I've got a few more tests to do than I thought. Some people have allergy or other reactions to PG, was this the only reason the lab reports seem to recommend using VG rather than PG? What liquid is volatile enough, non-toxic, gives no reactions for anyone, doesn't heat-decompose and is tasteless or has a pleasant taste ? Is PG the closest we'll come ? |
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| | #25 | |
| ECF Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: london uk / beijing china
Posts: 3,306
| Quote:
![]() Though a glycol is needed for the smoke effect. Just looking into dipropylene glycol and tripropylene glycol. Boiling points of 235C and 265C respectively. Both on quick glance seem similar to PG safety-wise but may share the same allergy problem for some. Raised B.P.s over PG but long-lasting, dense fog ![]() Mineral oil (baby oil), that is mostly alkanes, is also used in some fog juices. Very interesting results. Does lead to more hypothesis testing though But this is pioneering work (even if quite basic really!) | |
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| | #26 |
| ECF Veteran Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North Yorkshire UK
Posts: 2,892
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Oh and I can't really say what the vodka did....it did make my failing mini pipe atomizer vape almost as good as new for a few days....but unfortunately it died this morning and it was my last mini pipe atomizer....I need a bit of time before I can buy any more and I am not so sure I want to risk spending more money on those.
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| | #27 |
| Moved On Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: UK
Posts: 7,355
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Sedansa have started using PEG400 - polyethylene glycol instead of glycerine or propylene glycol.
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| | #28 |
| ECF Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: london uk / beijing china
Posts: 3,306
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Pete - sorry to hear your e-pipe. Cheer you up with an interesting fact: mineral oil (baby oil) is good at removing sticky labels ![]() Found this interesting link about safe exposure limits to theatrical fog for actors: AEA Fog haze and Smoke Guidelines | J&M Special Effects |
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| | #29 |
| ὅπερ ἔδει δεῖξαι Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: UK
Posts: 560
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Now I'm going to have to go and get some PEG400 as well. 'Mineral oil' sounds a little undefined, is it a recognised 'formulation' ? (edit: looks like a mixed-content by-product of the petroleum industry) Any chance of you doing a dead atty dissection Pete ? |
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| | #30 | |
| ECF Veteran Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North Yorkshire UK
Posts: 2,892
| Quote:
__________________ It's time to 'really' do something about changing this world for the better, click the link:- http://thevenusproject.com | |
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| acrolein, decomposition, deposit, glycerine, gunk, polymerisation, polymerization, vegetable glycerine |
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