Ethanol as an alternative to PG and VG - e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat

kinabaloo · 05-14-2009, 09:17 PM

Sorry folks - false alarm. Seems residual VG was the cause of the fog.

It odes vape ok, but next to no fog is produced, sadly.

Shows that juice is not easy to wash out at least.

Good for stealth vaping anyway. And makes me wonder how much I really need the fog effect.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I just came across a post by Kate in August last year who tried vaping just a flavoring that was alcohol based (Vegetable glycerine (glycerol) - safety discussion). Kate reported that some fog was produced which I was a little surprised by. Not very surprised as PG and VG are both types of alcohol, though longer chain. Surprised that an obviously safe base seems to have been rather overlooked.

So I tried it - and yes it does indeed produce fog, similar in volume and lastingness to PG. This despite the probably quite high percentage of water in this flavoring.

The juice I used was DrOetker/Supercook Lemon (mostly ethanol, some water and flavoring).

I did not find any overheating issue as mentioned by Kate; indeed, ethanol based juice would be expected to vaporise at a lower temperature. It might even be possible to run the atomizer at a lower power. At present, the ethanol-based juice tends to continue heating for a fraction of a second after power cut-off.

A potential downside though is that an ethanol-based juice can evaporate more readily at room temperature. I have been testing by dripping; not sure if an ethanol-based juice would be too thin to wick well from a cart; I haven't tried that yet.

I think this is definetely worth more investigaton. At the least, it suggests that we can increase the proportion of ethanol while reducing the proportion of PG and/or VG. At most, there might be a way here to avoid the decomposition of VG and the allergy issue of PG.

PG: C3H8O2 BP 188C
Ethanol C2H6O BP 78C

surbitonPete · 05-14-2009, 09:45 PM

It needs Kate to come in on that idea Kinaba.

kinabaloo · 05-14-2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surbitonPete

It needs Kate to come in on that idea Kinaba.

Indeed, I have already sent a PM.

Kate · 05-14-2009, 10:30 PM

Thanks for the message Kin.

I'd forgotten about trying this out but I'm afraid that I can't help much. It was ages ago that I tried vaping an alcohol based vanilla flavouring and I don't think you could really rely on my findings. I might not have persisted long enough to get residue of propylene glycol from the wick of the atomicer (that's my new word

). I didn't measure temperature either, it was a subjective impression.

This is certainly worth looking into in my view, the more options for base ingredients of eliquid the better. The only others that I've heard of that make vapour are propylene glycol, glycerine and PEG400.

chief druid · 05-14-2009, 10:37 PM

i mixed some dr oetker food flavouring with some niquid .. not good and it made an atomiser useless ... i binned it .. god damn orange exctract grrr .. .why i oughta ....

kinabaloo · 05-14-2009, 10:42 PM

The vanilla flavoring I have is the natural extract one and is more water than ethanol, hence trying the lemon.

I used up normal juice from the metal wadding first.

This also suggests that is worth considering other alcohols too and not be restricted to just those first identified as useful for dance/stage fog machines.

surbitonPete · 05-14-2009, 10:43 PM

Well I am too scared to risk any of my 'Atomicers' ....lol.......testing is all down to you kinaba.!!

kinabaloo · 05-14-2009, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief druid

i mixed some dr oetker food flavouring with some niquid .. not good and it made an atomiser useless ... i binned it .. god damn orange exctract grrr .. .why i oughta ....

There are only a few of these flavorings that are mostly ethanol (and no oil).

This is an experimental discussion thead, not a DIY juice tip.

Kate · 05-14-2009, 10:46 PM

This is the one I tried if you're interested:

Ocado: Fairtrade Nadali Vanilla Extract (Product Information)

kinabaloo · 05-14-2009, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surbitonPete

Well I am too scared to risk any of my 'Atomicers' ....lol.......testing is all down to you kinaba.!!

Pete - glad to hear it's still going strong - 11 days now ? Have you come up with a snazzy name for your mod yet ?

05-14-2009, 09:17 PM	#1
kinabaloo ECF Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: london uk / beijing china Posts: 3,306	Ethanol as an alternative to PG and VG Sorry folks - false alarm. Seems residual VG was the cause of the fog. It odes vape ok, but next to no fog is produced, sadly. Shows that juice is not easy to wash out at least. Good for stealth vaping anyway. And makes me wonder how much I really need the fog effect. -------------------------------------------------------------- I just came across a post by Kate in August last year who tried vaping just a flavoring that was alcohol based (Vegetable glycerine (glycerol) - safety discussion). Kate reported that some fog was produced which I was a little surprised by. Not very surprised as PG and VG are both types of alcohol, though longer chain. Surprised that an obviously safe base seems to have been rather overlooked. So I tried it - and yes it does indeed produce fog, similar in volume and lastingness to PG. This despite the probably quite high percentage of water in this flavoring. The juice I used was DrOetker/Supercook Lemon (mostly ethanol, some water and flavoring). I did not find any overheating issue as mentioned by Kate; indeed, ethanol based juice would be expected to vaporise at a lower temperature. It might even be possible to run the atomizer at a lower power. At present, the ethanol-based juice tends to continue heating for a fraction of a second after power cut-off. A potential downside though is that an ethanol-based juice can evaporate more readily at room temperature. I have been testing by dripping; not sure if an ethanol-based juice would be too thin to wick well from a cart; I haven't tried that yet. I think this is definetely worth more investigaton. At the least, it suggests that we can increase the proportion of ethanol while reducing the proportion of PG and/or VG. At most, there might be a way here to avoid the decomposition of VG and the allergy issue of PG. PG: C3H8O2 BP 188C Ethanol C2H6O BP 78C __________________ Link: Vaping Buzzz : Article Base & FAQ ... New Design Last edited by kinabaloo; 05-14-2009 at 11:31 PM. Reason: Error*

05-14-2009, 09:45 PM	#2
surbitonPete ECF Veteran Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North Yorkshire UK Posts: 2,892	It needs Kate to come in on that idea Kinaba. __________________ It's time to 'really' do something about changing this world for the better, click the link:- http://thevenusproject.com

05-14-2009, 10:37 PM	#5
chief druid ECF Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: north wales U.K. Posts: 681 Tweet this post!	i mixed some dr oetker food flavouring with some niquid .. not good and it made an atomiser useless ... i binned it .. god damn orange exctract grrr .. .why i oughta .... __________________

05-14-2009, 10:42 PM	#6
kinabaloo ECF Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: london uk / beijing china Posts: 3,306	The vanilla flavoring I have is the natural extract one and is more water than ethanol, hence trying the lemon. I used up normal juice from the metal wadding first. This also suggests that is worth considering other alcohols too and not be restricted to just those first identified as useful for dance/stage fog machines. __________________ Link: Vaping Buzzz : Article Base & FAQ ... *New Design

05-14-2009, 10:43 PM	#7
surbitonPete ECF Veteran Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North Yorkshire UK Posts: 2,892	Well I am too scared to risk any of my 'Atomicers' ....lol.......testing is all down to you kinaba.!! __________________ It's time to 'really' do something about changing this world for the better, click the link:- http://thevenusproject.com

05-14-2009, 10:30 PM	#4
Kate Moved On Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: UK Posts: 7,355	Thanks for the message Kin. I'd forgotten about trying this out but I'm afraid that I can't help much. It was ages ago that I tried vaping an alcohol based vanilla flavouring and I don't think you could really rely on my findings. I might not have persisted long enough to get residue of propylene glycol from the wick of the atomicer (that's my new word ). I didn't measure temperature either, it was a subjective impression. This is certainly worth looking into in my view, the more options for base ingredients of eliquid the better. The only others that I've heard of that make vapour are propylene glycol, glycerine and PEG400.

05-14-2009, 10:46 PM	#9
Kate Moved On Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: UK Posts: 7,355	This is the one I tried if you're interested: Ocado: Fairtrade Nadali Vanilla Extract (Product Information)

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