Might Found Working Filler, Maybe Someone Else Can Try To Be Sure...

[paise]

Hi Everyone:

I've added the fact that I'm visually impaired (legally blind but with a small amt of residual vision remaining) so finding appropriate filler and cutting to size and such is not as easy for me as it would be for a fully sighted person or even what is termed in the blind community as a high partial. FYI: High partial is someone whose visually impaired but still has a great deal of residual sight remaining whereas a low partial is someone whose visually impaired and has low to almost no vision remaining. Each category is basically legally blind according to SSA rules but this should give you an idea of what I can and cannot see. Anything beyond about 2 inches from my eyes is practically impossible for me to see so I must rely on my sense of touch, smell, taste, etc...

I believe we are not allowed to post links to other places so I will just say that I ordered a few sponges and sponge-type towels for my kitchen from Crate and Barrel online. I purchased their eco-brand because I am ecologically friendly as often as I can be and these little sponges and towels are not only reusable but the sponges are dishwasher safe and can be boiled to sterilize them. I think they are listed under Eco friendly. It won't be hard to find them. Just browse through the kitchen items like towels and sponges. They were on sale when I bought them.

The sponges are much thicker than the ones that work like paper towels. Get extras because they work great at wiping up spills and using when you have no choice but to hand-wash a dish. Personally, I rarely buy anything that can't go in the dishwasher but I do have a nice stainless steel kettle (retails at $175+/-) that was a gift from a family member. It's not dishwasher safe so I have to wash it by hand and I have to apply stainless steel cleaner to it occasionally to hold the shine but it's okay because I have a Rancillio Silvia Espresso Machine and the matching Rocky burr grinder too and the Silvia is all stainless steel so I have two items plus a few more to use the stainless steel cleaner on so it's not a waste to buy it. It's used rather frequently, at least 2x or more a month. I love specialty coffees like espresso and espresso-based coffees as well as French Press coffee. My French press has silver on it too come to think of it. But I digress... I could talk coffee and various means of making it for hours. I'm somewhat of a coffee aficiando. Nothing goes better with a cigarette or a nice fine cigar than coffee. Perhaps that's why I love coffee so much or why I haven't and don't want to give up smoking entirely.

But anyhow, these sponges work pretty well so far for me as a filler. I don't get a burn taste or anything. It takes a bit of work to get the syringe needle through the sponge material but it does go in quite well once you make the initial puncture. I've been giving injections for diabetes for 25 years now. My 1st husband and 2nd husband are both juvenile diabetics. It's become the family joke. My family believes I just have this thing for diabetics. Just for those who don't live with or know a diabetic, let me just say that it's no picnic. Having diabetes is like living with emotional whiplash. Their emotions and moodswings fly back and forth according to their sugar levels and at times it 'ain't' pretty, especially when their sugar is out of control and they don't know it. You have to get rough and stern to make them sit down long enough to check their sugar levels then bring it up if it's low or give a dose of insulin to bring it down when it's high. If that doesn't work, it's time for the paramedics. My 1st husband went into insulin shock once and threw me some 4-5ft across the room when I tried to hold him down on the bed to get liquid glucose down him. I finally had to call his sister and her husband who lived two doors down to come over at 2am to hold him down long enough to get the glucose in him before he went into a coma. I've had to get tough with my current husband as well. When the girls were little, I'd lock them in their rooms when his sugars were out of control and made him combative. I'd call their granny or a friend to help deal with the kids while I dealt with him. It's sad because when they come out of the insulin shock, they have no memory of what occurred while it was happening. It's not a life I'd choose for myself but I wouldn't trade my second husband for anyone else. He's my heart even though at times I want to smack him. We are the epitome of opposites attracting, flipsides of the same coin, opposites in every way ... but for us, it works somehow and has for some 20+ years. BTW, he raised my oldest child from my 1st marriage with me when her father walked out on us completely. I have true faith in that old saying that goes, "any man can be a father but it takes a special man to be a daddy."

As I was saying, the first puncture is the hardest but once you get it in, it's in there and you can pull back and move the syringe needle around in different directions. Unfortunately, it takes a large gauge needle to pull up the e-liquid. I tried it with insulin needles but the needle gauge is just too small to pull up the thick liquid. It's easier to get the liquid into the batting but it's too hard to pull the e-liquid into the syringe.

If anyone else wants to try these sponges as batting material, will you please respond here as to your thoughts and progress on using them?

I've had excellent vaping, no burning, and only a tiny bit of liquid come through the mouthpiece but I think that's from my over-filling. I'm working on using that straw modification so maybe I'm overfilling it because of the straw. I might remove it to see if it makes a difference. It seems to me, though I may be wrong here, but it seems to me that this sponge material holds more liquid. I can't count how much b/c I can't see the lines on the syringe anymore and unfortunately the larger syringes won't fit into the clicker that allows me to draw up my husband's insulins. He's on two types of insulin and takes about 8 injections or more a day. There's a supply company called Independent Living Aids that sells this little device that allows you to stick the syringe into a holder then you place the vial of insulin into it and close it up before turning this knob that pulls insulin into the syringe and at the same time it's making clicking sounds which represent 2 units for each click. Insulin syringe lines equal 2 units of medication, btw... I also telecommuted from home as a medical transcriptionist for a large teaching hospital with a level I trauma center and emergency room with fast track, which is like a quick med. Those were my primary accounts tho' I did transcribe reports for the operating room, death summaries, and even autopsies. That's why I could relate to what Bonnie-Girl, I believe was her name, was saying about people who have never smoked or been around smoking in their life also die from lung cancer so it is NOT strictly a smoking thing when it comes to lung cancer. I've transcribed way too many reports on hospital patients, both living and during death summaries and autopsy reports where the patient died from lung cancer having never smoked or been around smokers their entire lives. It's all government BS.

One more thing before I forget it... If anyone needs a 16 gauge needle but feels a bit embarrassed or unnerved about asking the pharmacist for one, you can always tell them that you have a dog or a cat and that your vet gave you medicine for your pet but it has to be drawn from a bottle using a syringe but then you need to remove the syringe to give the medication to your pet. They will give you a two piece syringe. Ask for at least a 16-gauge syringe. The needle will have a cover over it for protection and it will be in a sealed plastic front with usually a paper backing that peels apart at the top. The syringe can be removed or replaced by placing the cap on the needle then sitting it into the bottom end of the syringe and giving it a twist. There are threads in the bottom of the syringe. Just don't over or under tighten it too much or you will cut the threads. Tighten it to finger/hand tight so it doesn't leak. You can also clean these syringes by soaking both pieces in a jar of plain alcohol like you buy from the pharmacy and then let them dry. Keep them away from pets and children though because they are dangerous.

I actually have a guide dog. He's my second one and he's getting on up in age. My previous guide dog passed away last summer but she'd been retired for a number of years. She died of old age; she was about 14 years old. Lion, my current guide dog is almost 11 years old. He's slow but it works for us because I'm slow too. I have lupus, the SLE type with Sjogren's disease and Fibromyalgia to complicate the mix. These autoimmune diseases have caused major joint problems on top of joint problems I already had from many broken bones throughout my childhood and early adult years. I need a left knee replacement and hip replacement but the docs won't do it until it is an absolute last ditch effort because of my age and my immune system. I'm fortunate that my current guide dog's puppy walker had a left knee replacement surgery when she was puppy walking him so now he is particular of the left side knee, which is great being as how guide dogs for the blind, as a general rule, work on the left side. The only reason they would work on the right side is if a person had suffered a stroke or otherwise had problems that would not allow them to work the dog on the left. The trainers would work with probable dogs for someone like this until the dog was familiar and almost automatic in going to the right side versus the left.

The story about asking the pharmacist for a syringe for a pet is one I've used when I really did have to have a syringe within that size range for my guide dogs in the past. The pharmacist never questioned me about it. It's not unusual for someone to ask to purchase a syringe for pet medications, especially the two-piece type where it has a removable needle so don't feel so bad about asking for them. Again, if you feel a bit uneasy, just tell them its for your pet's medicine and you need the type where the needle will screw off the syringe in order to give the medication. Lots of liquid pet medicines are given this way. You just draw it up in a syringe with the needle attached, then remove the needle part, and then hold the pet's mouth or head for the ears (wherever the meds need to go) and press the plunger making sure to close their mouth or press the ears down so the dog or cat doesn't shake or spit (so to speak) out the medicine.

Hope this helps someone. Forgive the length and forgive me for getting off subject. I'm in a lupus flare right now and brain fog is a side effect of a lupus flare. It's difficult to keep my thoughts centered. Plus, I'm a freelance writer since I am unable to work as a medical transcriptionist anymore due to nerve damage in my right arm preventing me from keeping my typing speeds upwards of 120+wpm. I had to resign after docs found the nerve damage and couldn't control the pain, loss of grip strength, or surgically correct the problem. I write for several e-zines, a few print magazines, and various blogs and such but always when I'm not in a flare. My editing stinks when I try to write when I'm in a flare. It usually lasts a few days to a couple of weeks depending upon the trigger. It's raining here and has been for the last several days on and off plus I've been overdoing it taking care of my husband not to mention the stress of his condition and his own stress, which raises mine a few notches higher. Then there's the duty of making sure my little one works on school work through the summer so she can maintain her straight A status and stay in the AIG (academically and intellectually gifted) program. She's been a straight A student learning 2 grade levels ahead of her classmates since starting kindergarten. I refuse to move her up a grade or two because she is nowhere near mature enough to be in a class of children 2 years older than she is. She simply is not ready for those kinds of milestones yet so she has special classes that cater to her needs via an IEP (independent education plan) plan. She will be in advanced mathematics when school resumes, which gives her a shot at algebra I in 8th grade, then honors math, trigonometry, pre-calculus, and calculus in high school not to mention taking all honors classes in her other subjects especially English. She had the highest grade in English this past year out of all the students in her grade (6th grader). She had the 2nd highest in math but only missed it by less than a tenth of a point. She and this little boy bounced back and forth between 1st and 2nd place all year long. He got math but she beat him in English. They equaled out in science and social studies making it a tie but she received credit and a certificate for managing the school newspaper when normally 6th graders are not on the newspaper staff. She also earned the Governor's Student of Excellence Award. I'm rather proud of her. Everything I do now is preparing her for a shot at a full ride to a university in the field of her choice. I'm crossing my fingers, proverbially speaking because it hurts too bad to do it for real.

Thanks for listening to my rant and forgive me for it too. I do hope someone can find some interesting and useful information within this post.

Before I forget.... Make sure if you try the sponge I mentioned for filler that you rinse it out and wet it well then squeeze it out well. It fluffs up really well when you do this plus it removes dust or stuff from when it was being cut and packed in the factory. I boiled mine too and it didn't lose it's fluffiness. It's a bit tough for me to cut and get the right size so if anyone finds the right lengths for the carts, please post them. I own a measuring tape made specifically for the blind so that won't be too much of a problem.

[Some Guy]

I wish I could type like you Paise.
If you are talking about cellulose sponges I don't suppose they could hurt you..As for cutting it to size I was thinking maybe a hole punch like what is used for paper may work for you..Then all you would have to do is put it in the cart and trim off the excess..Assuming the right diameter..

The clicking syringe filler was interesting but i doubt it would work in reverse for what i was thinking..Was "Independent Living aids" the place that sold the tape measure for the blind? I did not see it there but I know someone who could use one.

[paise]

If Independent Living Aids doesn't have the tape measure for the blind then you can likely find it at Maxi-Aids. It's another supply store for the blind.

Here's the link if the forum will let me post it.

http://www.maxiaids.com/store/prodVi...Measuring_Tape It is at Item#: 14155.

I hope it helps. The fiberglass tape measure has round holes with metal rings at the inch and the half inch. I think it has holes to work with metric too but I only use the American standard when using it. It helped me sew on a patch to my oldest daughter's scrub top when she was shadowing a nurse while in advanced allied health in her junior and senior years of high school. Oddly enough, her patch was sewn on in the exact area, right side up matching perfectly, and without a pucker - which according to her teacher was better than many of the other student's scrub tops whose "sighted" parent sewed them on. She wanted to know how and I told her about the seamstress tape helping me measure out the height, width, and the use of pins showing me the top and bottom of the patch so I would not confuse the two.

[Some Guy]

Thank you for the link paise.

For cart material, you should try "lipton pyramid tea bags" (nylon).This stuff is a huge improvement over the standard cart filler..I can't do a link but the thread is on the tips and tricks page under "Tea bags/tea filters..which where etc".

[Rogue X2 v2]

could you include a voice recording of this book next time? thx in advance!

[quovadis]

Paise
thanks for your well written and informative post.
I wish i had the God given patience to write like you.
I share your Silvia passion, and always have a backup at home should the first one fail.

Actually the Silvia and atomizers have something in common...they both need to be flushed out and cleaned from time to time.
I tried cleaning the atomizers with the Cafiza product they advertise for removing calcium deposits from the Silvia, and it seems to work quite well.

As for the sponge and foam materials we are currently performing some in depth testing on various filling materials.

Although it is too early to disclose the results, it seems that we may all be barking up the wrong tree.

Most of these fillers work quite well the problem is that we have not yet found one filler material that is easier to fill and gives out all it's liquid to the atty.
Most filler materials trap 60% of the fluid, and the atty runs dry although there is still plenty of liquid in the cart.

We are actually in the process of studying if the way we are using the filler is the correct way, rather than which filler to use.

In the past weeks, a few of us have tested different types of batting, textiles, foam etc...

I am starting to conclude that the filler material is not the most important factor in this. I have used at least 4 fillers that perform on the same level.

I'm leaning onto a few theories now, that the way, shape, and amount of filler we place into the cart is more important than the filler itself.

Although we have not finished testing, we have found that NON ABSORBING and stiffer fillers work better than VERY ABSORBING and softer fillers.
For example there are about 12 grades of poly fiber batting. Some absorb more than others and some are more hydrophobic than others.

This goes against logic, because we would think that a foam like filler capable of absorbing large quantities of liquid would work best.
The problem is that the atty cannot remove the liquid from this highly absorbent foam and it runs dry although the cart is still quite full.


We are also starting to conclude that different fillers give out different quantities of vapor.
Some draw better than others etc.

We know the 801 carts hold maximum 37 drops, and not more than 34 should be used. (0.9~1ml).

We do not want to post results yet but have found that filling up the 801 or 510 cart to 3/4 full and adding a small amount of filler in a ball shape to stop the liquid from flooding the cart, maybe a better solution to the problem than using filler all the way down the cart.

Anyway, it's still to early to speculate.

[paise]

Rogue, I wish I could but I haven't figured out how I can get my screen reader to read the posts, record them at the same time, then let me post the recording of the posts back to the net. My often long-winded posts are generally more of an occupational hazard as a writer. The thoughts just flow through my fingers often without me consciously paying attention yet knowing exactly what it is I am attempting to get across in posts and even emails. In the future I will work harder at keeping the posts shorter. I promise. Just please forgive me if I wander off the path every now and again.

quovadis, I'm finding that even with the smallest cuts I'm making with the sponge material, it is a bit difficult to get the syringe needle into the sponge. If I go at it from the sides and slip btw the sponge and the side corner, the sponge eventually fills out yet like the regular fillers used in the carts initially from the company, there is still fluid in the bottom of the sponge material at the end (mouth-end) of the cart. I still have to either flip the sponge material to get as much liquid as possible although that leaves the risk of the atty becoming too dry, which is a bad thing.

Someone on another thread mentioned that he/she was using filters or rather the cotton inserts of filters that I believe are used for rolled cigarettes. I contacted a local smoke shop to see if they have any of these filters to give them a try since they are, as the poster relayed, very cheap considering the number of filters/fillers contained in the bag.

In past years, I have smoked hand-rolled cigarettes; however, someone else usually rolled them for me as I am not extremely adept at rolling them. For some odd reason I am not able to distribute the tobacco evenly and roll the cigarette at the same time without everything falling out.

If the smoke shop has these types of filters in stock, I might purchase a bag just to find out if it might be a solution until a better one comes along.

BTW, would you mind sending me a PM with directions to the thread where the results of your testing will be? It would be a relief to find something that works well. I really don't understand why these companies that manufacture the e-cigarettes don't sell the filler as they do the atomizers, batteries, and new blank carts/pre-filled carts. They already sell the blank cartridges with fresh fillers so it is not as if they are attempting to monopolize on the pre-filled cartridges. They should just sell the filler separately at a cost just a bit above their costs to keep the prices low. If so, I am quite sure the e-cig community would be more than willing to pay to get the filler even with it's somewhat flawed manner of functioning.

[wv2win]

I've tried the little sponge painting rollers because they hold liquid so well. Just cut the appropriate amount out to fit the cart. I also had no problem. I didn't find it better or worse than the material that comes in the blank carts. I've switched mainly to dripping so I really didn't truely evaluate this option very long.

[wv2win]

Considering your limited vision, you might want to get in touch with "tinear" and see if he would make you one of his inventions that feeds the liquid from a small juice bottle right into the atomizer. I know I would love to have one. Here is a link with a picture of his modification:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/for...oncept-pv.html

[quovadis]

Rogue, I wish I could but I haven't figured out how I can get my screen reader to read the posts, record them at the same time, then let me post the recording of the posts back to the net. My often long-winded posts are generally more of an occupational hazard as a writer. The thoughts just flow through my fingers often without me consciously paying attention yet knowing exactly what it is I am attempting to get across in posts and even emails. In the future I will work harder at keeping the posts shorter. I promise. Just please forgive me if I wander off the path every now and again.

quovadis, I'm finding that even with the smallest cuts I'm making with the sponge material, it is a bit difficult to get the syringe needle into the sponge. If I go at it from the sides and slip btw the sponge and the side corner, the sponge eventually fills out yet like the regular fillers used in the carts initially from the company, there is still fluid in the bottom of the sponge material at the end (mouth-end) of the cart. I still have to either flip the sponge material to get as much liquid as possible although that leaves the risk of the atty becoming too dry, which is a bad thing.

Someone on another thread mentioned that he/she was using filters or rather the cotton inserts of filters that I believe are used for rolled cigarettes. I contacted a local smoke shop to see if they have any of these filters to give them a try since they are, as the poster relayed, very cheap considering the number of filters/fillers contained in the bag.

In past years, I have smoked hand-rolled cigarettes; however, someone else usually rolled them for me as I am not extremely adept at rolling them. For some odd reason I am not able to distribute the tobacco evenly and roll the cigarette at the same time without everything falling out.

If the smoke shop has these types of filters in stock, I might purchase a bag just to find out if it might be a solution until a better one comes along.

BTW, would you mind sending me a PM with directions to the thread where the results of your testing will be? It would be a relief to find something that works well. I really don't understand why these companies that manufacture the e-cigarettes don't sell the filler as they do the atomizers, batteries, and new blank carts/pre-filled carts. They already sell the blank cartridges with fresh fillers so it is not as if they are attempting to monopolize on the pre-filled cartridges. They should just sell the filler separately at a cost just a bit above their costs to keep the prices low. If so, I am quite sure the e-cig community would be more than willing to pay to get the filler even with it's somewhat flawed manner of functioning.

Testing has just started, and it may be possible that we don't come up with anything better.
I don't use a syringe.
Fill the cart up to 3/4 full (34 drops for an 801 cart)
Place a small ball of filler material at the top of cart, so the liquid cannot leak onto the atty, or drown the cart.
Filler must not be too compacted, not too loose.
To off with 2~3 drops to get the filler material soggy.
You should get 56 large puffs with this system before the filler material becomes dry again.
Remove the filler material at top and fill the cart again.

If using foam, use the large cell reticulated foam.
It is less absorbent than regular PU foam.

Do not use closed cell materials that do not allow liquids to pass through them (latex foam , some kitchen sponges etc).

I do agree with WV2Win that most of these filler materials work more or less ok. There is not one that stands out as being much better.