Acrolein from VG?... Simple Test results

[StratOvation]

Hi All,

Over the past several months I have seen this topic raised many times and understand why some are concerned.

I've just conducted some tests that I thought some of those folks may be interested in.

The following is a simple attempt to share my observations with those interested parties and should not be construed as a recommendation either for or against the use of VG in your personal devices.

First, the devices and test conditions:

E-Cig./PV:
Prodigy V1 (resistored) with full charge on 2X 3.0V tenergy LiFePO batteries, Reading 6.92V (~5.5V underload) at the atty adaptor.

Atomizer (Atty): Saibao true DSE801 tall bridge. (With Bridge removed for testing purposes)


Liquid: DIY 18mg. 60% PG, 20% VG Base.

Temperature Testing Equipment: Etek 10709 Multimeter(MM) with temp capability to 785 degrees F. K type thermocouple (TC) supplied with Etek MM.

I tested the calibration of the MM and thermocouple via boiling water and an ice bath prior to use. Boiling H20= 211F, Ice Bath= 33F. Not perfection but close enough for this application.
I should mention that I chose to use this Device primarily due to the extremely small thermocouple,

which would allow me to take readings inside of an atty while in operation.


The Testing:

My initial reading was taken with the atty clean and dry and the Thermocouple (TC) in contact (touching) with the coil. After continuously energizing the coil for 6 seconds, the peak temp reading was 689F (365C).

I allowed atty coil to cool for 5 minutes and then dripped four drops of liquid into the atty and waited for 1 minute (allowing time for liquid to disperse)

I repeated the 6 sec. heat cycle with TC touching the wetted coil. Peak temp was 324F (162C).

After clearing the vapor from the atty, I posistioned the TC just above the atty coil (~1mm) and repeated the 6 sec. cycle again. peak temp of vapor at coil was 218F (103C).

After allowing atty to cool for a few minutes I added 2 more drops of liquid.
With the TC ~1/2" above the coil I repeated the 6 sec. cycle 3 times with a 20 sec. interval between each cycle. Peak temps were 139F (59C), 146F (63C) and 148F (64C).

Observations:
This test was conducted using a newer High Voltage Device (Prodigy V1)at peak performance to simulate a "worst case scenario" and is not indicative of a standard E-Cig./PV.

The 6 second cycle times are assumed to be extreme for this device as the manufacture recommends 3-5 seconds with this atty.

This test is not an attempt to simulate "real world" measurements derived from the same device when used as recommended.

There is no allowance for negative pressures present in normal operation which would certainly decrease the observed vapor temps.

Conclusions:
IMHO, The dry coil is capable of far exceeding the stated decomposition temp of VG (280-290C). However,When wetted, The coil peak temp is dramatically reduced and becomes incapable (under these conditions) of achieving required temps to decompose the VG into Acrolein.

Hope someone finds the data useful.

Mike

[happily]

good info...

[surbitonPete]

Hi strato.....thanks that was very interesting. I feel quite sure there must be some circumstances when a tiny bit of acrolyn is produced in the vaping process of VG and for some reason I actually equated acrolyn with a really awful chip fat type of taste I would sometimes get when I was vaping but thankfully I haven't experienced that taste again since I started doing a daily dry burn to clean my atty. I think the danger is very, very slim and certainly doesn't make me want to go back to the dangers of tobacco.

[Sun Vaporer]

Originally Posted by StratOvation

Hi All,

Over the past several months I have seen this topic raised many times and understand why some are concerned.

I've just conducted some tests that I thought some of those folks may be interested in.

The following is a simple attempt to share my observations with those interested parties and should not be construed as a recommendation either for or against the use of VG in your personal devices.

First, the devices and test conditions:

E-Cig./PV:
Prodigy V1 (resistored) with full charge on 2X 3.0V tenergy LiFePO batteries, Reading 6.92V (~5.5V underload) at the atty adaptor.

Atomizer (Atty): Saibao true DSE801 tall bridge. (With Bridge removed for testing purposes)


Liquid: DIY 18mg. 60% PG, 20% VG Base.

Temperature Testing Equipment: Etek 10709 Multimeter(MM) with temp capability to 785 degrees F. K type thermocouple (TC) supplied with Etek MM.

I tested the calibration of the MM and thermocouple via boiling water and an ice bath prior to use. Boiling H20= 211F, Ice Bath= 33F. Not perfection but close enough for this application.
I should mention that I chose to use this Device primarily due to the extremely small thermocouple,

which would allow me to take readings inside of an atty while in operation.


The Testing:

My initial reading was taken with the atty clean and dry and the Thermocouple (TC) in contact (touching) with the coil. After continuously energizing the coil for 6 seconds, the peak temp reading was 689F (365C).

I allowed atty coil to cool for 5 minutes and then dripped four drops of liquid into the atty and waited for 1 minute (allowing time for liquid to disperse)

I repeated the 6 sec. heat cycle with TC touching the wetted coil. Peak temp was 324F (162C).

After clearing the vapor from the atty, I posistioned the TC just above the atty coil (~1mm) and repeated the 6 sec. cycle again. peak temp of vapor at coil was 218F (103C).

After allowing atty to cool for a few minutes I added 2 more drops of liquid.
With the TC ~1/2" above the coil I repeated the 6 sec. cycle 3 times with a 20 sec. interval between each cycle. Peak temps were 139F (59C), 146F (63C) and 148F (64C).

Observations:
This test was conducted using a newer High Voltage Device (Prodigy V1)at peak performance to simulate a "worst case scenario" and is not indicative of a standard E-Cig./PV.

The 6 second cycle times are assumed to be extreme for this device as the manufacture recommends 3-5 seconds with this atty.

This test is not an attempt to simulate "real world" measurements derived from the same device when used as recommended.

There is no allowance for negative pressures present in normal operation which would certainly decrease the observed vapor temps.

Conclusions:
IMHO, The dry coil is capable of far exceeding the stated decomposition temp of VG (280-290C). However,When wetted, The coil peak temp is dramatically reduced and becomes incapable (under these conditions) of achieving required temps to decompose the VG into Acrolein.

Hope someone finds the data useful.

Mike

Mike --very well done and very useful---We appreciate it greatly

Sun

[StratOvation]

I agree Pete. IMHO, It seems the only time when Acrolein production is likely, Is at the moment just before the coil becomes throughly dried and temps begin to climb rapidly. At that instant, the volume of acrolein potentially generated is nearly nil simply because there is no VG volume left to convert.

[surbitonPete]

Originally Posted by StratOvation

I agree Pete. IMHO, It seems the only time when Acrolein production is likely, Is at the moment just before the coil becomes throughly dried and temps begin to climb rapidly. At that instant, the volume of acrolein potentially generated is nearly nil simply because there is no VG volume left to convert.

Yes and apparently Acrolyn is supposed to produce such a pungent smell that we should be well aware of it if we were producing much of it.

[Cayman]

Strat... nice write-up. Thank you for taking the time to do this.

[Shining Wit]

Originally Posted by StratOvation

I agree Pete. IMHO, It seems the only time when Acrolein production is likely, Is at the moment just before the coil becomes throughly dried and temps begin to climb rapidly. At that instant, the volume of acrolein potentially generated is nearly nil simply because there is no VG volume left to convert.

ECOpure has no PG but a large amount of VG. When tested at the University lab
using the very latest equipment and methods, a specific test was requested for the presence of acrolein.
This was tested for at temperatures up to 300 Deg Centigrade with no measurable traces.
For the amateur scientists who take an extremely pedantic view, that means that
there were no measurable traces, but there might have been one part in 500 trillion.
In simple terms, there was no acrolein found.
John.

[AGNES PEACOCK]

Thank you StratO, Your information is timely and welcome.

[vapola]

Wow, thanks for posting this. I also have a Prodigy and was wondering how high the atomizer can heat up. It is great news that the temperatures do not reach high enough levels to produce acrolein!!! Even if your test was not as rigorous as you want it to be, I am sure most of us on this forum who vape VG based juice are happy to read this!!!!