How much nicotine is destroyed during vaping ?

[kinabaloo]

I guess I am right in thinking that the electrodes are outside the glass tube?

In that case the current is through ionisation into the air. Inside the jar only the field is at play. Perhaps polar molecules can act this way without any ionisation taking place.

[kinabaloo]

Btw, some air humidity, and dissolvable pollutants, will end up in the condensed liquid too. More likely acidic in nature though?

ps: smoke particles are mostly already charged.

And a high voltage supply likely has a curent limiting 10M resistor in series so the actual current could not be anywhere near 1ma, afaik.

[DVap]

I really don't think it's that critical what occurs in the electrostatic field as far as titration is concerned since, as Exo has pointed out, the basicity of the nitrogen should be unaffected. If further characterization of the condensate were to be performed, then it might or might not have some impact. Such further characterization, much beyond selective precipitation of nicotine would be getting into the realm of GCMS, and cost prohibitiveness.

[DVap]

Btw, some air humidity, and dissolvable pollutants, will end up in the condensed liquid too. More likely acidic in nature though?

From my canister analysis days, these would be VOC's (volatile organic compounds). Even in some pretty smelly industrialized regions, these volatiles might add up to around a few parts per million, and generally with indoor air, might only add up to a few dozen parts per billion.

Probably need to distinguish between large particles and diffuse gases... seems much easier to get large particles to clump in an electrostatic field than diffuse gases.

[kinabaloo]

I really don't think it's that critical what occurs in the electrostatic field as far as titration is concerned since, as Exo has pointed out, the basicity of the nitrogen should be unaffected. If further characterization of the condensate were to be performed, then it might or might not have some impact. Such further characterization, much beyond selective precipitation of nicotine would be getting into the realm of GCMS, and cost prohibitiveness.

But the titration just measures how much alkali (acid neutralising potential) is in the liquid, right ?

Agreed the e field would be acting on the recondensed droplets, perhaps their polar nature, causing them to collide and grow larger.

[kinabaloo]

While most likely the 92% is right, I still think there might be a way for the liquid to be altered in terms of pH by the electrical field; and for this I suspect it is through ionisation of the water molecules (small-scale electrolysis) and loss of more hydrogen than oxygen.

Consider the electrolysis of brine:

2 NaCl + 2 H2O → Cl2 + H2 + 2 NaOH

The result is from neutral to basic liquid. Now suppose that some of the nicotine was lost in some way that created a basic solute but no longer nicotine ... something like this.

Or how about oxidation of the hydroxyl moiety contained on a propylene glycol monoether by electrolysis to an ether ketone?

If such effects do not occur in the electrostatic precipitator, they might still be important in understanding what happens on the nickel-chromium heater coil.

Amjad et al., "The Oxidation of Alcohols at a Nickel Anode in Alkaline t-Butanol/Water Mixtures", Electrochem. Sci. & Tech., 124, 203 (1977)
Fleischmann, Korinek and Pletcher, "The Oxidation of Organic Compounds at a Nickel Anode in Alkaline Solution", J. Electroanal. Chem., 31, 39-49 (1971)
Guzman, Vilche and Arvia, "Nonequilibrium Effects in the Nickel Hydroxide Electrode", Journal of Applied Electrochemistry, 9, 183-189 (1979)
Kaulen and Schafer, "Oxidation of Primary Alcohols to Carboxylic Acids at the Nickel Hydroxide Electrode", Synthesis, 513-516 (Jul., 1979)
Nakagawa, Konaka and Sugita, "Application and Mechanism of Oxidation with Nickel Peroxide", Annual Report of Shionogi Research Laboratory, No. 19 (1969)
Sidney Ross, John E. Barry, Manuel Finkelstein and Eric J. Rudd, "Anodic Oxidations, IX, Anodic Oxidation of 2-Methoxyethanol", JACS, 95:7, 2193 (Apr. 4, 1973)
Vertes, Horanyi and Nagy, "A New Method for the Electrochemical Oxidation of Alcohols", Tetrahedron, 28, 37-42
Vertes, Horanyi and Nagy, "Oxidation of the Nickel Hydroxide Electrode, I", Acta Chimica Academiae Hungaricae, Tomus, 67, (2), 145-156 (1971)

~~~

Longshot: Or the liquid or whole room was charged at the time of the titration, perhaps.

If everyone is still unconvinced, I'll let the idea go and run with the result as true

[kinabaloo]

Ok, so we have potentially 90%+ efficiency at getting the nicotine largely unchanged from the e-liquid to our body. So we are looking at perhaps 50% non-absorption because the nic (or alkaloids) is/are dissolved in droplets of glycol; this mostly exhaled and some digested.

In short, for the seemingly important effect of creating a visible fog, we need roughly twice the nicotine that a 'boring' inhalator requires for a similar aborption (though a bit slower). But I, like most I suspect, need that visible fog and feel it's a price worth paying.

[UpInVapor]

Complete newbie to e-cigs and have been a bit worried about unknown issues possibly involved with vaping. I love the fact that we have you guys working on some of these (and doing it with so much enthusiasm!).

All I can say is THANK YOU! and keep up the excellent work!

[whimzkool]

But I, like most I suspect, need that visible fog and feel it's a price worth paying.

As far as I am concerned, you would be correct on that count.
Thanks exogenesis and those who contributed to this interesting and enlightening thread. Admittedly, I only understood 92%, and my absorption rate was closer 20%, so I hope there isn't a test.

People generally feel better in a surfeit of negative ions; out of the city, by sea or up mountain is best. Sounds like a question on QI: where is negative energy positive?

...or a great geek riddle that I will pose to my chemist son next time I see him!
That mountain air after a thunder storm always makes me feel alive!

[kinabaloo]

As far as I am concerned, you would be correct on that count.
Thanks exogenesis and those who contributed to this interesting and enlightening thread. Admittedly, I only understood 92%, and my absorption rate was closer 20%, so I hope there isn't a test.


...or a great geek riddle that I will pose to my chemist son next time I see him!
That mountain air after a thunder storm always makes me feel alive!

I'm wondering if pH is changed by atmospheric charge transferred to the liquid (as it would)? If you've a pH meter and a standard buffer, perhaps you can test out the theory ...