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Thread: FDA regulation/ban buster

  1. #11
    Ultra Member ECF Veteran DrMA's Avatar
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    So basically by changing the ingredient's name from the common designation, "nicotine", to the HPUS designation, "Nicotinum", you now have a homeopathic drug rather than a tobacco product (as defined by the proposed FDA deeming), even though we're still talking about the same chemical compound known by its IUPAC designation "(S)-3-[1-Methylpyrrolidin-2-yl]pyridine". I still don't see why eliquid cannot fit the same description with a minor labeling change as shown above.

    Here's some interesting FDA and HPCUS debate in relation to a product very similar to that linked by the OP:
    http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dai...11-01-vol3.pdf
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMA View Post
    So basically by changing the ingredient's name from the common designation, "nicotine", to the HPUS designation, "Nicotinum", you now have a homeopathic drug rather than a tobacco product (as defined by the proposed FDA deeming), even though we're still talking about the same chemical compound known by its IUPAC designation "(S)-3-[1-Methylpyrrolidin-2-yl]pyridine". I still don't see why eliquid cannot fit the same description with a minor labeling change as shown above.

    Here's some interesting FDA and HPCUS debate in relation to a product very similar to that linked by the OP:
    http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dai...11-01-vol3.pdf

    hehe, read that yesterday.... interesting.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMA View Post
    So basically by changing the ingredient's name from the common designation, "nicotine", to the HPUS designation, "Nicotinum", you now have a homeopathic drug rather than a tobacco product (as defined by the proposed FDA deeming), even though we're still talking about the same chemical compound known by its IUPAC designation "(S)-3-[1-Methylpyrrolidin-2-yl]pyridine". I still don't see why eliquid cannot fit the same description with a minor labeling change as shown above.
    It has nothing to do with the name of the active ingredient.

    Remember that homeopathy is basically dilution with some hocus-pocus "succussion" thrown in. This product claims 7X dilution for nicotine, which means you start with a 10% solution of nicotine/water (I think), succuss (shake) it, take 10% of that solution and dilute it in water (so now a 1:100 ratio), succuss, do it again and again a for a total of 7 times. In the end, you end up with a 1:10,000,000 nicotine/water solution.... a few molecules of nicotine if you're lucky.

    So, you could follow the same dilution process using PG/VG and have "homeopathic eliquid". Or, you could vape zero-nic and save the hassle.
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    Tabacum is the more interesting of the ingredients. It is made by soaking tobacco leaves in a water alcohol mixture and it is listed as 3X or 1 part per 1,000.
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    To confirm, while the Aqua-tine packets do provide a nice nicotine buzz when mixed in a drink they are
    not effective when loaded into a mod.
    I had no expectations, but figured why not try. Nothing fancy, I just mixed it 50%/50% with PG and no flavoring.

    It is just a matter of volume, the 2 packets I put in my drink was almost 5ml where as the amount per vape
    is only a small fraction of that.

  6. #16
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    Wouldn't work for me. I've discovered that I crave the hand-mouth motion as much as the nic (need 'em both). Besides, I wonder if you'd get more nicotine from chewing gum.

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    I thought this tread had played out, then I saw this posted on YouTube.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-_7dy66Rjo


    It is almost exactly what I was talking about.
    Last edited by trying; 07-26-2014 at 02:31 PM.

  8. #18
    Ultra Member ECF Veteran dragonpuff's Avatar
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    A homeopathic remedy is an extreme dilution of a toxin, the idea being that if something is harmful to you, you will be protected from it if it is administered to you in a very miniscule amount. This is accomplished through successive dilution, as described above by Endor:

    This product claims 7X dilution for nicotine, which means you start with a 10% solution of nicotine/water (I think), succuss (shake) it, take 10% of that solution and dilute it in water (so now a 1:100 ratio), succuss, do it again and again a for a total of 7 times. In the end, you end up with a 1:10,000,000 nicotine/water solution.... a few molecules of nicotine if you're lucky.
    The end result is also known as containing "trace amounts" of nicotine.

    As a homeopathic medicine, the FDA "does not evaluate the remed[y] for safety or effectiveness," according to the NIH. So basically they qualify it as "homeopathic" and nothing more. The reason the FDA doesn't actually regulate it is because there's nothing to regulate. As I've said in other posts, if a substance is found in "trace amounts," it has the same effect as if it were not there at all.

    Then why does it work? There's a lot to be said for the placebo effect... which is how all homeopathic remedies work.
    Last edited by dragonpuff; 07-26-2014 at 05:43 PM.

    "The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views... which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering." Doctor Who

  9. #19
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    I was given 20 of these packets and the effects are real not a placebo.
    I looked up the dosages, the Nicotinum content is 1 part per 1,000,000 and 1 per per million of 2.4 ml is a placebo effect number.
    However it is the other ingredient Tabacum which is 3X or 1 part per 1,000 that I believe supplies the noticeable nicotine feeling.
    In short Nicotinum is nicotine but Tabacum has a nicotine content just as tobacco has a nicotine content.

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