So what might really happen with regulations/bans? Should we be stocking up? - Page 3
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Thread: So what might really happen with regulations/bans? Should we be stocking up?

  1. #21
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    Nicotine is definatley the key and I think a black market for that will be much harder than some seem to think it will be. Just a week ago UPS paid $40 million in fines for not screening pkgs for prescription pills. FedEx is appealing. So now you have package delivery services being REQUIRED to search packages for contraband + payment gateways and the FDA doesn't need a law to shut those down. I don't think it'll be too much longer before even IMR single cell batteries are given a squeeze since IATA already restricts those; domestic carriers could easily say "ground only" and limit the number of cells per package. Not the same as illegal, but a hassle and more expensive.

    Meanwhile there are local laws, taxes that will probably continue to pop up. "Clean Air" organizations are doing everything they can to get vaping included with smoking and this requires no laws or votes. They can get officials to include it in language for parks, multi-housing, all sorts of places that affect large numbers of people.

    I don't mean this as a downer. The intention is more to face possibilities because if people really are serious about this, these are the things that need to be figured out. Some people on the forum have been stock-piling since 2009 so there's probably enough to go around for awhile. The reality is that a black market is not a way to grow an industry. It's the worst case scenario. IMO we'd be better off sinking money into organizations determined to fight regulators.

    Not everyone will be stocked up. A good 2/3rds of vapers are not plugged into the community and are probably dual users with cigalikes. So one of the first side effects from deeming regulations IMO will be a spike in smoking rates. That'll be fun to watch how that's explained - and I'm sure they'll try.
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  2. #22
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    Politicians follow the money. I expect tighter regulations at some point in the future. Who knows when. The manufacturing of ecig products will go to the corporation that forks over the most money to the politicians. Probably large corporations. The smaller suppliers will suffer the wrath of the government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikanae1 View Post
    Nicotine is definatley the key and I think a black market for that will be much harder than some seem to think it will be. Just a week ago UPS paid $40 million in fines for not screening pkgs for prescription pills. FedEx is appealing. So now you have package delivery services being REQUIRED to search packages for contraband + payment gateways and the FDA doesn't need a law to shut those down. I don't think it'll be too much longer before even IMR single cell batteries are given a squeeze since IATA already restricts those; domestic carriers could easily say "ground only" and limit the number of cells per package. Not the same as illegal, but a hassle and more expensive.

    Meanwhile there are local laws, taxes that will probably continue to pop up. "Clean Air" organizations are doing everything they can to get vaping included with smoking and this requires no laws or votes. They can get officials to include it in language for parks, multi-housing, all sorts of places that affect large numbers of people.

    I don't mean this as a downer. The intention is more to face possibilities because if people really are serious about this, these are the things that need to be figured out. Some people on the forum have been stock-piling since 2009 so there's probably enough to go around for awhile. The reality is that a black market is not a way to grow an industry. It's the worst case scenario. IMO we'd be better off sinking money into organizations determined to fight regulators.

    Not everyone will be stocked up. A good 2/3rds of vapers are not plugged into the community and are probably dual users with cigalikes. So one of the first side effects from deeming regulations IMO will be a spike in smoking rates. That'll be fun to watch how that's explained - and I'm sure they'll try.
    Well stated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv2win View Post
    Well stated.
    Ditto.......
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikanae1 View Post
    Nicotine is definatley the key and I think a black market for that will be much harder than some seem to think it will be. Just a week ago UPS paid $40 million in fines for not screening pkgs for prescription pills. FedEx is appealing. So now you have package delivery services being REQUIRED to search packages for contraband + payment gateways and the FDA doesn't need a law to shut those down. I don't think it'll be too much longer before even IMR single cell batteries are given a squeeze since IATA already restricts those; domestic carriers could easily say "ground only" and limit the number of cells per package. Not the same as illegal, but a hassle and more expensive.

    Meanwhile there are local laws, taxes that will probably continue to pop up. "Clean Air" organizations are doing everything they can to get vaping included with smoking and this requires no laws or votes. They can get officials to include it in language for parks, multi-housing, all sorts of places that affect large numbers of people.

    I don't mean this as a downer. The intention is more to face possibilities because if people really are serious about this, these are the things that need to be figured out. Some people on the forum have been stock-piling since 2009 so there's probably enough to go around for awhile. The reality is that a black market is not a way to grow an industry. It's the worst case scenario. IMO we'd be better off sinking money into organizations determined to fight regulators.

    Not everyone will be stocked up. A good 2/3rds of vapers are not plugged into the community and are probably dual users with cigalikes. So one of the first side effects from deeming regulations IMO will be a spike in smoking rates. That'll be fun to watch how that's explained - and I'm sure they'll try.
    Great post..........

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    Those involved in RYO cigs saw these same type of actions taken - the 'operation choke' that started with paypal, then credit cards, then bank wires, along with restrictions is shipping. I don't need to mention restrictions in the USPS.
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    If I buy RYO supplies online, including the tubes, the cc company automatically sends information to the state. I get a bill for the tax. Technically, there are fines and criminal penalties even for a single person. Online retailers fought back by having people buy tokens / coupons / reward points with their cc and then use those for exchange. No dice. Didn't even make a good legal case.

    I think it's important to realize the PACT act was ushered through very swiftly. One day legal and the next day not, by the time the federal law was passed most states had already passed restrictions and bans on RYO making it a mute point by the time the federal law was passed. They (fed) estimated over 4,000 - 5,000 small business were shuttered. Many of these were small mom and pops with < 10 employees who had sunk life savings into machines that would churn out rolled cigarettes.

    Did they do it for the children? Heck no. The only advertising campaign needed was that RYO "was an end run around taxes". That was acceptable and neither political party objected. They continue to put pressure on pipe tobacco sellers since that can also be used for cigarettes. It's on-going. No one heard the smokers who wanted chemical free tobacco.

    So the fact they've already abandoned the excuse that it's "for taxes" I think is a good sign that vapers have already pushed them into coming up with more. This pressure has to continue to mount in greater and greater numbers for them to feel it. Numbers do count and I wish there had been a much stronger membership drive for CASAA long before now.

    Over these next two years it will come down to getting as many smokers as possible into vaping and into speaking up for vaping. I expect we'll start seeing business' divide into a variety of categories; mainly those who are in it until death (yea!) and those who start trailing off their investment in vaping. The result will be progessively less innovation and product choices. It might not even be noticable at first, just 1,000 new mods rather than 2,000 and so on.

    Like it or not, "we" are it. The success or failure of vaping. "We" have to jazz up vendors, "we" have to make signing up with CASAA fun and "we" have to tell non-smokers that vaping is the way forward to a smoke free world.

    If NRT products worked, we wouldn't still have so many smokers (70% want to quit).
    If vaping were a gateway, then youth smoking rates would not have dropped. Same with adult smoking.
    We know vaping is better than smoking. It's not the same as being mislead by tobacco companies "light" cigarettes.
    Yea I could go on. I'm preaching to the choir.

    The sad fact is that we do NOT have the response needed to make a difference. People have adjusted, aclimated to the idea and 2 months ago they weren't. I don't know how to reawaken that passion again.

    FDA ecig psst 8881a7d255fa9d2ed273c95665f8ac6a.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikanae1 View Post
    ...

    The sad fact is that we do NOT have the response needed to make a difference. People have adjusted, aclimated to the idea and 2 months ago they weren't. I don't know how to reawaken that passion again.

    ...
    I does seem that there is No Sense of Urgency Today. Where as 2 Months ago, as you mentioned, this Board was On Fire.
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    I think our lot unfortunately was/is in the hands of the media and HOW they report on vaping. Had this been reported on by honest investigative journalist showing the lives being saved, cost savings and some of the tests showing the general benign nature of vaping, I don't think we would be having these battles in every city, state, and Fed gov agency like we do now. Instead they just accepted their talking points from the talking heads and called it news. Accepted by the non smoking population as fact so any and all restrictions and taxes will be welcomed by them.
    To change our course of events, we would have to change how it is reported to the public. I don't even know if that's possible, so I'm stocked up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryInTexas View Post
    I think our lot unfortunately was/is in the hands of the media and HOW they report on vaping. Had this been reported on by honest investigative journalist showing the lives being saved, cost savings and some of the tests showing the general benign nature of vaping, I don't think we would be having these battles in every city, state, and Fed gov agency like we do now. Instead they just accepted their talking points from the talking heads and called it news. Accepted by the non smoking population as fact so any and all restrictions and taxes will be welcomed by them.
    To change our course of events, we would have to change how it is reported to the public. I don't even know if that's possible, so I'm stocked up.
    Your are 158% correct.

    It always amazes me how little blame the mainstream media is getting in all of this.
    If it weren't for them, we would have won this thing a long time ago.

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