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Thread: regulating e liquid as if it is tobacco product...

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElmosRevenge View Post
    ... What do you think?
    What do I Think?

    I think there comes a Point where the Effort should be Placed more on Trying to Fight for Fair and Equitable e-Liquid use than to Argue if a Nicotine Containing e-Liquid is a "Tobacco Product".

    Because Very Shortly, e-Liquids which contain Nicotine derived from Tobacco Plants will have a Statutory Definition as a Tobacco Product. And that is Not Going to Change.

    Have you Written your State and Federal Representatives telling them what type of e-Cigarette Market you want?

    Have you ask your Husband/Wife to do the Same?

    Have you ask your Friends and Family to do the Same?

    Have you gone to this Site and Considered what they Suggest? CASAA: First Call to Prepare for FDA Proposed Regulations - Prepare Draft Comment

    Discussing if Nicotine containing e-Liquids should be a Tobacco Product or Not is Fine. But they are Going to be Legal Defined as such soon.

    So maybe More effort should be Placed in Trying to shape how we can Still Use these "Tobacco Products".
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  2. #12
    PV Master ECF Veteran Jman8's Avatar
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    I think, similar to Zoid, that it is inevitable, and does make a little sense. If the nicotine in eLiquid is derived from tomatoes, Zeller has already said they wouldn't regulate that under this framework (implying it would need new proposal). So, what are items are on the market that contain nicotine derived from tobacco? Well, lots of tobacco products (like smokes, chew, etc.) and NRT's, which had to go through lots of hoops to be considered NRT, and which eLiquid could go through if it wanted to position itself in that light.

    Where I differ, I think, from many is if you want to see this change drastically, you'd go after FSPTCA. You'd scrutinize the heck out of the tobacco control act, and seek changes with how all tobacco products are regulated. If there is little desire to do that, then I don't see the way to the golden road for eLiquid, as reality is that even some vapers (perhaps majority) are inadvertently working against basic principles of eLiquid regulation (saying they don't want that, but essentially supporting the act that does just that).

    I also think the kicker, cited in post #2 on this thread, throws a wrench into the regulatory framework, and I'm very pleased with that.

  3. #13
    DC2
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctruth View Post
    Capitalism = Selling something for way, way more than it's worth, plain and simple.
    Gotta comment on that...

    Capitalism is really selling something for what the market will bear.
    Which means free-market competition and product improvement and innovation and reputation.

    What it doesn't mean is getting regulatory bodies to pass regulations that will hinder the development of all of the above.
    That is called something else entirely.

    I think the word is Oligarchy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DC2 View Post
    ...

    I think the word is Oligarchy.
    Great Word DC2.

    Oligopoly

    Oligopoly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    It is the basic, metaphysical fact of man’s nature—the connection between his survival and his use of reason—that capitalism recognizes and protects.

    In a capitalist society, all human relationships are voluntary. Men are free to cooperate or not, to deal with one another or not, as their own individual judgments, convictions, and interests dictate. They can deal with one another only in terms of and by means of reason, i.e., by means of discussion, persuasion, and contractual agreement, by voluntary choice to mutual benefit. The right to agree with others is not a problem in any society; it is the right to disagree that is crucial. It is the institution of private property that protects and implements the right to disagree—and thus keeps the road open to man’s most valuable attribute (valuable personally, socially, and objectively): the creative mind.

    Ayn Rand “What Is Capitalism?” Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal

  6. #16
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    So we have an oligopoly of a few corporations getting rich and an oligarchy with respect to just who has laws and regulations passed to serve their own interests, and not those of the average citizen
    America is an oligarchy, not a democracy or republic, university study finds - Washington Times

    America is no longer a democracy — never mind the democratic republic envisioned by Founding Fathers.

    Rather, it has taken a turn down elitist lane and become a country led by a small dominant class comprised of powerful members who exert total control over the general population — an oligarchy, said a new study jointly conducted by Princeton and Northwestern universities.

    One finding in the study: The U.S. government now represents the rich and powerful, not the average citizen, United Press International reported.
    With those corporations influencing the politicians to pass regulations that suit their own goals - and by no means the goals of the average citizen (Big Pharma and vaping, anyone? Monsanto and GMOs, anyone?)

    Not a good time to be an average citizen, eh?
    jpargana, faile, BuGlen and 1 others like this.
    European Vapers: We need you! Please sign the European Free Vaping Initiative - for all of us!


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    Quote Originally Posted by ElmosRevenge View Post
    Regulating e liquid as if it is tobacco product is like trying to regulate ice cream as if it were the same as a steak.
    And basketballs and lipstick are derived from crude oil. Therefore, they are both petroleum products and should be regulated in the same way as gasoline. What's the problem?
    faile, Stosh, Anjaffm and 1 others like this.
    Please become an active CASAA member. "It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt." -- John Philpot Curran: Speech upon the Right of Election, 1790.

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    Hm... as to nicotine derived from tobacco. I found this today:

    Regular flavor electronic cigarette cartridges | GreenSmartLiving e-cig refill

    All of our e-cig cartridges are 100% tobacco-free. The nicotine in our high and low nicotine strength refill products is derived from non-tobacco sources like tomato and potato plants. Finally, you can enjoy the nicotine without the dependency on tobacco!
    I have no idea whether this product is viable.
    But I would love to see the so-called "experts" hem and haw and choke on their silly lies.
    European Vapers: We need you! Please sign the European Free Vaping Initiative - for all of us!


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    Quote Originally Posted by zoiDman View Post
    What do I Think?

    I think there comes a Point where the Effort should be Placed more on Trying to Fight for Fair and Equitable e-Liquid use than to Argue if a Nicotine Containing e-Liquid is a "Tobacco Product".

    Because Very Shortly, e-Liquids which contain Nicotine derived from Tobacco Plants will have a Statutory Definition as a Tobacco Product. And that is Not Going to Change.

    Have you Written your State and Federal Representatives telling them what type of e-Cigarette Market you want?

    Have you ask your Husband/Wife to do the Same?

    Have you ask your Friends and Family to do the Same?

    Have you gone to this Site and Considered what they Suggest? CASAA: First Call to Prepare for FDA Proposed Regulations - Prepare Draft Comment

    Discussing if Nicotine containing e-Liquids should be a Tobacco Product or Not is Fine. But they are Going to be Legal Defined as such soon.

    So maybe More effort should be Placed in Trying to shape how we can Still Use these "Tobacco Products".
    There is no argument - cause there is no tobacco. Full stop

    The ANTZ show their true colour each time they won't support a common sense bill all over a category. Dont ever give them that.


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    Anjaffm and ElmosRevenge like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElmosRevenge View Post
    I guess I just cannot wrap my head around how these bureaucrats think that e liquid is the same as tobacco.
    Whenever you ask the question "Why", the answer is almost always "Money".

    As is in this case. E Liquid cuts into profits of tobacco, other nicotine cessation products, and all the pharmaceuticals prescribed for smoking, not to mention all the money that is made off of people's bad health as a result of smoking tobacco.

    Why are they doing this? Money. Money, money, and more money.

    edit: I guess you where asking "How", but it could have been re-phrased as a "Why"...

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