EPM V2, Vapor Flask DNA40, ZNA30 A-Stock, Hana V3, SX mini S, Provarii P3/2.5x2,
Billet Boxes ver 3/3a, Dark Star 30, LP Reo Grand, MCM DNA20, Peko
Thanks for your replies, retrox and BlueSnake.....
I noticed the same thing concerning favor fading over time. I use amber bottles and keep them in a dark cool place. Been lowering nic levels and now at 4mg/ml. I had to assume it had something to do with the flavor since nothing else was changed. I now make ~30ml at a time and the problem is diminished. I'm guessing 2 - 3 weeks is the max before the favor starts to go. Sort of counter intuitive from what I am used to.
I'm still trying to figure out what's going on with the Creme Brulee (CB). Lately, I've been trying different "additives" like salt, EM, etc. So far, nothing has made much of a difference. I did lay off the flavor for a week and that made the biggest difference. When I tried the CB again, I did notice more flavor. This is leading me to think that maybe I am using it too frequently and my "buds" are getting "tired" of it and not sensing it. This is pure speculation on my part.
Anyhow, I'll keep fiddling and hope I can figure out why I can't taste my fav flavor....lol. Heck, it does give me something to do....LOL!!!
I always keep a strong palate cleansing juice like citrus or some other acidic fruit on hand to give the taste buds a kick in the pants when flavor fatigue sets in with my favorite juice. Also, a dill pickle chip or two chased with plenty of water tends to reset even the most stubborn of buds.
The rapid onset of flavor fade may have something to do with the extremely concentrated nature of these flavorings. I'm no chemist, but it stands to reason that you can only fit so many (flavor) molecules into a given area at a given density, and that eventually those molecules will disperse given time when introduced into a PG/VG solution, causing the flavor density to decrease. Perhaps the flavor density decreases at a higher rate with ultra-concentrates? Pardon me while I try to get my own head around what I'm saying by typing it out. Ha!
So for instance, let's say we have one milliliter of flavoring that contains the same number of flavor molecules, and hence imparts the same amount of flavor, as a single drop of a super-concentrated flavoring. We then put each of those flavorings in each of those amounts into a 10ml solution. Even though we may experience the same degree of flavor from both solutions at first, the density of the flavor molecules will decrease as the flavoring disperses into the solution over a period of days/weeks/months. By the time the liquid components have fully synthesized, we will have two solutions with an initially equal amount of flavoring, but the single-drop solution will have a much lower density of flavoring than the 1 mil solution. So it's flavor density that's the most important over the long haul, not flavor amount!
Pure unadulterated speculation is fun.
What you are saying makes sense, retrox..... and it is hard to get ones head wrapped around the idea.
I'm even having a difficult time trying to write this post because I can't quite put into words what I think I want to say...that make sense? There is something about flavoring "strength" that has me wondering at times. Is it because I don't really know what is in the flavoring and in what concentration either by weight or volume? I think that's sort of it, but not quite. Always did have a hard time in chem class doing the concentration calcs and how many molecules were stuffed in a given volume. I didn't want vaping to turn into a scientific study, but one sort of has to approach it that way to figure out some of the problems we encounter like this favor fade thing. (favor fade thing -- now that sure sounds scientific, right? )
I guess the best yardstick is our own level of satisfaction with a given juice. Sort of like putting 10 farmers in a room, asking a question and getting 10 different answers. Everyone has their own opinion....lol
Perhaps this is what I have been having trouble figuring out. Let's say you are making a recipe that calls for 2% flavor. You look at your selection of flavors and think, hmmmm.... this one says it is super concentrated, this one says nothing, this one Jim Bob told me was sort of strong, etc. So, as I see it, 2% could be a pretty wide range of "strength". Are our flavorings 1M soln's? Saturated? (doubt it). 10%? Does this make sense or am I way off base? This "thing" has been bugging me and I just can't seem reconcile it in my mind. (maybe I'm not supposed to reconcile, just make juice and quit thinking...lol)
I recently made a order with the Russian supplier. 37 flavors in 10 ml. I bought Sponge Cake from vz and I love it.there are some flavors that's the Vz doesn't offer or are sold out and I wanted to try them. especially the vanilla rum. I am wondering... The Russian flavors come in a class dropper bottle. For their 10 milliliter flavorings can someone tell me how many drops per milliliter the dropper bottles use. I normally don't use drops but because these are super dupre concentrated I'm going to have to start using drops. I'm really happy that use glass I don't like using plastic although sometimes I have no other choice. I also bought all tobacco and I'm really excited to get them in. I know this post hasn't seen much action in a little while. Are you still all enjoying the gourmet flavors?
Baku .... How much trouble was ordering from the Russian supplier? I've been thinking about it, but haven't looked into payment, communication, etc. Can you give me a rundown as to how your ordering process went? Sure would appreciate it.
I do wish this thread was more active to..... I'm still really liking the flavors I bought from VZ. Favs are Chocolate Truffle and Creme Brulee. They definitely are concentrated. I also have been using some of them with foods. They are great both ways!!
Hope this helps
Last edited by salemgold; 04-06-2014 at 12:01 AM.