The Really Big RY4 Roundup (long)

[billherbst]

I totally agree with your statement about entertainment vs. information. I think, at best, you can get a general idea of how well made a juice is from the sum of the opinions expressed here, but you still have no idea whether you will actually like a given juice. I've had many juices that I could tell were made by someone who knew what they were doing and just not cared for the end result.

goodtimes,

That's a very savvy perception. Or maybe I'm just calling it savvy because I agree. Great minds think alike, LOL.

The more reviews I do---not just for the RY4 thread, but for other juice flavors also---the more clearly I experience that distinction. Liking a nicquid (or conversely, not liking it) does seem to be almost entirely personal and subjective. Appreciating a juice, however---which is to say, recognizing the quality and care that went into its making---is still personal and subjective to some extent, but calls forth another layer of perception. To call that additional layer "objective" is probably an exaggeration, but it definitely invokes a cooler, more detached assessment, like being a fair witness.

For instance, my landlord owns a high-end Lexus. On the rare occasions that I've ridden with him, I appreciate the quality of design and manufacturing precision of his vehicle. However, I like my 12-year-old Saab SportWagon much more, for all sorts of idiosyncratic reasons.

An obvious example in the world of juices is that over the past months I've fallen out of love somewhat with many of Backwoods Brew's tobacco juices, but I still respect and admire Don's creativity and craftsmanship as an artisan juice-maker.

[billherbst]

I purchased bottles of TopShelf RY4 and SmokeForPennys RY4 for review. They are both 18mg nic strength, with the TopShelf being a 60/40 PG/VG blend, while SmokeForPennys is all-VG. Liquid color is pale lemon-lime for TopShelf and pale gold for SmokeForPennys. Both juices were sampled by dripping into a 2.0 ohm atomizer run at 4.0 volts for 8 watts of power. Since they are custom-made and fresh-mixed, I gave them a week to steep.

Penny is a woman who owns and runs two separate web sites---one called SmokeForPennys.com, the other called SmokeAnywhereForPennies.com. The web sites use different layout formats, but they sell exactly the same products at the same prices.

These reviews will be short and sweet---short because I don't have that much to say about either juice, and sweet because both are dessert-type RY4s.

For those who like sweeter, dessert RY4s, these are both delicious juices. If you prefer stronger tobacco RY4s that are less sweet, skip them, as there are better choices for that. I like them both very much, but I give the nod to TopShelf RY4 because it is so caramel-rich. [Note: I ordered two bottles of TopShelf, one with normal flavor and the other with a "super shot," presumably triple flavor. The super shot adds pleasing depth and richness to the juice, and I recommend that option.] SmokeForPennys RY4 is leaner and more balanced, and doesn't offer a flavor upgrade. Neither RY4 contains a nutty component, and the vanilla in both remains in the background.

Here's the problem: As good as these two RY4s are (and they are both quite tasty---well-made, with lovely tobacco bases and no funny or off-flavors), they don't have a snowball's chance in Hades of ever breaking into the Top 10. Competition on the Big List is just too fierce. They are, however, solidly in the middle of the pack, with nice flavor and fine performance.

You won't go wrong buying either of these RY4s.

[billherbst]

Below is the most current update of the rankings. Please keep in mind that numerical rankings are 1) inherently sort of silly (just like the "Top 100 Rock Songs of All Time" and every similar list), and 2) they are just my opinion---your taste buds and nose may not sing to your brain like mine do to my brain.

RY4 Rankings

1. Janty RY4 Classic or Elixir
2. Dekang RY4
3. Ikenvape IKV RY4 Gold, PG Blend
4. VapeRite Organic VR4
5. PrimeVaping PV4
6. VaporTalk Dulcis
7. Bloog/Volt RY4
8. LiquidXpress Taboo
9. Esmoke4Life Riskee Yuice
10. ElixirLiquid RY4

11. Want2Vape RY4
12. BackwoodsBrew RY4
13. NiteLiteVapor Renegade RY4
14. ECBlend Ruyan 4
15. QuickNicVapor RY4
16. Vixen Vapors RY4
17. VapeRite RY4
18. GoodEJuice RY4
19. KalamazooVaporShop RY4
20. TheVaporRoom Ginger's RY4

21. TopShelf RY4
22. VapeDoctor RY4
23. VaporStation VS4
24. SmokeForPennys RY4
25. JooglerJuice Joogler's Blend
26. KickBassVapor RY4
27. Want2Vape Rock Star
28. VaporStation RY4
29. High Caliber Our 4
30. VapeMasters R4

31. FreedomSmokeUSA RY4
32. HoneyvilleVapor RY4
33. GourmetVapor RY4
34. AwesomeVapor RY4
35. Halo Tribeca
36. Copper Creek Twisted Tobacco
37. Mist-Stix RY4
38. VoidMist RY4
39. Vapure VY4
40. AltSmoke RY4

41. BlueMistVaping RY4
42. FlavourArt oRYental 4


Category Groups

Stronger Tobacco (less sweet)
Dekang RY4
Ikenvape RY4 Gold
VaporTalk Dulcis
Esmoke4Life Riskee Yuice
BackwoodsBrew RY4
NiteLiteVapor Renegade RY4
VapeRite RY4
TheVaporRoom Ginger's RY4
Madvapes Dekang RY4
VaporStation VS4

Dessert (more sweet)
Janty RY4
Bloog/Volt RY4
Vixen Vapors RY4
QuickNicVapor RY4
GoodEJuice RY4
KalamazooVaporShop RY4
TopShelf RY4
VapeDoctor RY4
SmokeForPennys RY4
Kick Bass Vapor RY4
High Caliber Our 4
CopperCreek Twisted Tobacco
Vapure VY4

Nutty
Ikenvape IKV RY4 Gold, PG Blend
VaporTalk Dulcis
LiquidXpress Taboo
ElixirLiquid RY4
QuickNicVapor RY4
VapeRite RY4
KalamazooVaporShop RY4

Caramel Rich
VapeRite Organic VR4
PrimeVaping PV4
LiquidXpress Taboo
Want2Vape RY4
Vixen Vapors RY4
GoodEJuice RY4
TopShelf RY4
Kick Bass Vapor RY4
GourmetVapor RY4
CopperCreek Twisted Tobacco
VoidMist RY4
Vapure VY4

Vanilla Rich
PrimeVaping PV4
BackwoodsBrew RY4
QuickNicVapor RY4
JooglerJuice Joogler's Blend
FreedomSmokeUSA RY4
CopperCreek Twisted Tobacco

Liqueur
BackwoodsBrew RY4
Vixen Vapors RY4
QuickNicVapor RY4

Balanced/Blended
Janty RY4
Dekang RY4
PrimeVaping PV4
VaporTalk Dulcis
Bloog/Volt RY4
ElixirLiquid RY4
ECBlend Ruyan 4
VapeRite RY4
GoodEJuice RY4
KalamazooVaporShop RY4
VaporStation VS4
SmokeForPennys RY4
Halo Tribeca

Variants (non-typical)
VapeRite Organic VR4
BackwoodsBrew RY4
TheVaporRoom Ginger's RY4
JooglerJuice Joogler's Blend
Kick Bass Vapor RY4
Want2Vape Rock Star
High Caliber Our 4
FreedomSmokeUSA RY4
Halo Tribeca
CopperCreek Twisted Tobacco
VoidMist RY4

So-So (undistinguished)
Mist-Stix RY4
Vapure VY4
Altsmoke RY4

Bizarre (just plain weird)
BlueMistVaping RY4
FlavourArt oRYental 4

[Zombitedesade]

A quick word just to add sonething I discovered as a little unusual but bizarrely worked rather well.

Got a lovely bottle of Janty RY4 but was forced to settling for some 36mg strength, which in a juice as incredibly balanced as this does make it overly harsh and lessons that beautifully smooth sourness one should expect from a standard 18-24mg janty RY4.

To counter this a little (and in the absence of some flavourless PG/VG to dilute) I dared to add just 1ml of strawberry cotton candy pre mix into 3mls of the RY4 in an arry tank. Expecting the results to be less then stellar (to put it mildly), imagine my surprise at the sweet, dessert & caramel strawberry I got instead! Of course it's 'ruined' in the sense it's not RY4 anymore, but it's rather nice all the same. Takes the edge off and sweetens the peppery harshness of the 36mg into something more vapable in the evening.

I won't be doing this all the time, or indeed, very often, but it was a success of sorts worth sharing! Also was pleasant to discover how strawberry can work rather well with a dessert RY4 too, but don't over do it, the subtlest of hints is all you need else you risk loosing all that caramel tobacco entirely I fear.

[billherbst]

I want to write about tank systems. Well, not exactly "write about"---more accurately, I want to complain about tanks. I'm posting this rant here on the RY4 thread rather than in the General Discussion forum because, well, this thread is where my friends are, and when we need to vent and gripe, our friends are who we want to do that with.

Way back in November of last year, I began buying CE2s, which were touted as The Greatest Thing Since Sliced Bread. Over the next couple months, I eventually bought 50 of them, 25 stainless steel and 25 clearomizers, and I went through the whole purgatorial punishment of jumping through hoops trying to get the damned things to perform properly. I did all the recommended fixes---I burned and fluffed the wicks, cut the cup slots deeper, did syringe mods and larger home-made syringe tanks. Besides the endless wicking problems and total lack of throat hit, what aggravated me most was that all but four of them leaked like sieves. That's 92% that leaked. Another product that looked good on the drawing board but doesn't work in the real world.

In fairness, most of the time the CE2s didn't leak at the seals. They leaked down the center tube that's attached to the coil cup and out through the hole in the connector. Eventually I got so angry at the hundreds of wasted hours that in March of this year I pitched every one of them into the trash.

After a hiatus of some months, during which I discovered the brilliance of dual-coil cartos on variable voltage mods and correctly ignored all the hype surrounding the various ego-tank systems, I noticed that a lot of individuals and vendors were making and selling 2nd generation large-capacity tanks---MAP tanks, Stormy tanks, JonboyUSMC Lava tanks, Liquinators, etc.---and people were praising them to the skies.

I already knew that tanks using CE2s sucked eggs, but then I saw that new tanks were being offered that used slotted dual-coil cartos. And when Electronicstix had a sale recently on their 5ml dual-coil J-Tanks, I was seduced again. The posts I read and videos I watched made by enthusiastic and thrilled users all stated unequivocally that there was no leaking with these new tanks. You'd think that I would have known better, but nooooo.

Fool that I am, I bought four J-Tanks, since they were half the cost of some other pricier tanks. With considerable anticipation, I got out my trusty dremel and cut slots in a dual-coil carto, assembled the first tank, and filled it with about 3ml of Bounty Hunter. Not five minutes later, I had a tank that gurgled loudly with every draw on the flooded DC carto, causing it to leak badly.

Same problem as the CE2s. No leaks at the seals, and no leaks when I filled them, but terrible leaking down the center tube of the carto and out the hole in the 510 connector when I vaped them.

Over the past week, I have been through the mill with these implements of torture. I tossed out the double-slotted dual coil that was flooding and switched to a single-coil XL 1.7 ohm Resurrector, thinking that one coil might draw less juice than two. No luck. I also stopped cutting two slots, went to one slot, then gave that up and began punching only a single tiny hole in the carto to try to stop the flooding. No matter; they still flood and leak. I filled a tank with only 1 mil of juice (which does sort of defeat the whole purpose of a high-capacity tank), just to see if the flooding was caused by siphoning and might stop with less liquid in the tank. Apparently not. I tried very slow and shallow draws to prevent flooding the cartos. They flood anyway. I tried running them on my VVs at lower voltage, all the way down to 3.0 volts. All that did was give me a leaking tank that performed badly. I even cut down one polycarbonate tube and positioned the hole in the carto inside the seal to constrict juice intake.

Nothing works. I now have four J-Tanks that occasionally function as they should, but after vaping them for awhile invariably start gurgling as the carto floods and leaks juice down the center tube and out through the connector. Then I have to unscrew and remove the tank, invert it and blow out the over-saturated excess juice (which wastes juice like crazy), then clean up the juice that has pooled around the connector of my PV. After all that, the tank works properly, but only briefly. Twenty minutes later it's flooding and leaking again. What a nightmare!

I don't feel that this flooding/leaking problem is unique to J-Tanks, so my ire is not aimed specifically at this particular brand. J-Tanks are well made and don't leak at all from the seals. I can see no other conclusion, however, than to assume that any similar tanks will flood and leak in precisely the same way. And I have had enough of this nonsense.

Having blown $63 on four J-Tanks, I have now ordered ten 4ml-capacity clear eGo Mega Dual Coils and four 510-to-ego adapters to allow their use on any of my mods, along with a five E-Power Mega Duals just for good measure. Cost? Only about $3.50 each with the adapters. And I know from experience with regular mega duals that those will probably perform like champs and won't leak a single drop.

Anyone want some almost new 5ml dual-coil J-Tanks for cheap? Just kidding---I won't foist off lousy products on my friends.

If this turns out to be user-error, I will post a mea culpa retraction later. But this isn't rocket science, or at least it shouldn't be.

End of rant---for now, anyway.

[Ceegary]

I make my own from 10ml syringes I get for free from the pharmacy. I drill a small hole for filling and use a stainless machine screw with 0-ring, which is my only cost. I'm fussy about making a clean single hole that doesn't mess with the filler. I couldn't get dual-cartos to work, they always leak, not sure why, but have had good success with Boges and Go-go cartos.

There's usually leakage when you first use a fresh carto in one. I fill them up, then place them over the bottle of juice so any leakage goes directly back in and leave them for a few hours. After that they're good to go and don't usually leak even when I refill. I do find improved performance and have been using them for a while now. I did make some bigger capacity ones out of 20ml but prefer the slimmer profile. (Plus they cost me pennies to make). I'd be happy to share info if anyone wants to learn to make them.

[washvap]

Sorry to hear about your experience with the tanks Bill. On the bright side. The EMDCC give a tremendous TH and warmth in the vapor. My only complaint about them is that they don't produce as much vapor as I anticipated. It's probably due to the juice that I'm using which is a 80/20 mix that I got from Gourmet Vapor.

Anyways, let me know how you like them.

[Zombitedesade]

I completely empathise with you there Bill. I look and occasionally buy new P.Vs in search of the 'best' vaping setup and sure, a new sparkling massive battery mod does improve my vaping experience. But, it's actually something I think many of us can all agree on; that final, fail safe, sure fire 'I'll never fail you' delivery method, that vital componet of vaping, the bit that holds our juice, that heats up our eliquid and turns it into a vapour for us is still, after 3 years or more not quite right.

I learnt this pretty early on and I've not been vaping for half as long as some of the hardened vets here on these boards. There's a reason why so many vendors still, even now, ship out starter kits with blank or pre filled cartridges and atomisers or at the very least 2 piece designs with the standard resistance single coil cartomizer. For me, these are probably as fail safe as it gets. They are a pain, hold very little juice (over the course of a day) and require fiddling with and refilling and topping off to really be used all the time. For this reason we all look for that bigger, better delivery methods available.

I've yet to really find it. Like you bill I've tried dual coils (pretty good, but still need topping off like all cartomizers) pump carts (rubbish), G4's (cold vapour and leaky), CE3 smokymizers (see G4), LR boge cartomizers (good but overrated IMO) mega ego dual coils from smoktech (pretty good actually, but need a lot of topping off), CE2's (leaking and wicking issues, cracked tubes, you name it) and finally an arry tank mod with CE2 insides.

Of them all, that last option, the arry tank is probaly my mainstay. But even that I had leak allover my pocket when out. you'd think, with all this great tech, science and new advancements in the field of vaping someone would come up with a fail safe never worry again delivery method! But for me ive not quite found it. The good news here is I really believe we are close, maybe not this year but I think the next we will see it.

In the mean time i eagerly await my Mini reo which should alleviate a lot of these hassles by being a bottle fed to atty mechanical mod. I've also eyed up the alpha ultramax a pourous ceramic, atomiser resiviour system which I believe if scaled down and mass produced could be the future of vaping.

Hang on in their buddy, I think we will turn the corner and prayers will be answered. Albeit a little slower then we'd hoped....

[billherbst]

Ceegary, washvap, and zombite,

I don't want to speak too soon, but my tanks seem to be "settling in" yesterday and today. I'm getting fewer episodes of leaking. Only one or two times among all four filled tanks. I don't know why this is happening, but I'll take it happily.

I did order 14 of the Ideal-brand 20ml veterinary Leur-slip syringes yesterday from an equine supplies site (that specific brand of syringes has rubber seals that are twice as thick and much heavier-duty than most). What the heck, the syringes were only 60¢ each shipped and should be a snap to make into tanks.

Heaven knows why I persist in this tank venture. I didn't really mind the need for frequent topping up of cartos. I was quite happy with Smok Tech mega-XL clear dual-coils, and I like the 1.7 ohm XL Resurrectors even more. But, you know, the quest for the Holy Grail of vaping delivery systems is never-ending. Heck, I now own 35 PVs/mods, among them 12 variable-voltage boxes, 4 eGo and 3 E-power units, 4 Hello 016 batts, 2 Phidias feeders, and a bunch of other tube and box mods (in 3.7, 5, and 6-volt versions), plus about 250 atties and cartos of all types. All I can say in my defense is that at least I don't play golf or collect sports cars, LOL, and all 7 of my Madvapes VV boxes cost less than a single Darwin or ProVari (not that I'm down on pricier mods---lots of folks understandably love those high-tech units, but I've not personally felt the need to own any of them).

Overall, I'm pleased to report that my vaping hobby/obsession provides me with much more satisfaction than aggravation. That's been true since I started vaping a year ago, and---as long as it remains true---I'm mostly a happy camper.

I also consider the many friends I've made on ECF (and especially here on the RY4 thread) as a significant part of the real joy of vaping.

[WIvapor]

I would suggest making a tank with the Ikenvape 801 Fusion carto. I hated all cartos till I tried the Fusions. Anyway, good luck, and thanks for this great thread. I found some great RY4's, Quick Nic, Primevaping, and BWB.