Eliquid approval

[scintar]

Presently, Dekang supplies over 90% of the world's demand for electronic cigarette liquid (e-liquid) so i would say that these are the people that need to be contacted for more tests.
As outwest has said the cost will rise if independent testing were done. One large reason people have made the switch to a VP is to save money over the ever rising cost of the analog.

Belew is a copy from SGS where Dekang had an independent company (SGS) do a safety report. Mabe we can start there and add on to the in place standards?

http://www.slideshare.net/guest6b24c9/ec502

[Kate]

Heed, my view is that if the manufacturer's seal is broken the product is potentially contaminated and should not be sold. I'd prefer RtV to deal with mass manufacturers, not small scale back kitchen operators, there's too much risk (in my opinion). I also doubt that small scale operators would have the funds to support lab test costs.

Is it known for sure that Dekang make 90% of eliquid? They certainly are one of the biggest players and hopefully will be interested in adding RtV approval to their credibility.

I've noticed that a/some Chinese manufacturers seem to be keen to show that their product is of good quality by producing lab test certificates. RtV could provide that service with the added bonus of being independent.

Here's a link for Dekang if anyone is interested - Yunnan Dekang Biotechnology Co., Ltd

All your thoughts are very welcome here, thanks for your views, please keep on adding ideas

[Heed]

Heed, my view is that if the manufacturer's seal is broken the product is potentially contaminated and should not be sold.

I agree, but the problem still exists.

There is a severe lack of response to this very question in the suppliers forum:

Innocent ? for All Juice Suppliers

If this is indicative of the level of practice whereby liquid is having the seal broken by the retailer, then there's going to be very little value in verifying the big manufacturers since a large swathe of the product they ship is likely to have the seal broken at some point.

Maybe it will push the resellers into a different practice, but I think it's an issue with what you've proposed. Product identity is at risk and if that can't be maintained the "stamp of approval" will become less meaningful and/or used on a product that hasn't actually been tested.

[hedgehog]

I don't sell liquid yet, but soon will, and I would definitely be interested in this kind of approval system.

As Kate said the testing costs would probably be prohibitive for smaller suppliers, so the ideal solution is to go the source and convince the main manufacturers to participate. As many do already seem eager to prove their testing, certificates etc, perhaps this would not be a big deal for them. And an independent endorsement would give a very positive boost to their sales.

[Smokingfreely]

Heed - I doubt very much that there are a lot of resellers cutting their juice or rebottling it. I am ordering in e-juice to resell and have gotten many proposals from many manufacturers (device manufacturers, most of them end up using terms like "have made" or "order in" when I have specific requests, so I don't think any of them are making the juice.) What I'm finding is that there is very little difference in price per ml for 50ml bottles and 10ml bottles. If you were to order 50ml bottles and rebottle them in 10ml bottles that you purchased seperately, it would actually cost you more.

[ISAWHIM]

You would need FDA, WHO, and ISO standardized medical grade labs to operate this business. Not to mention that you would need billion dollar life insurance, since you are making world-wide claims of health, which is a high liability. (EG, if your labs are wrong, it is not only a few customers that sue you, it is all the corporations who you gave approval to, all the sellers who are now sitting on losses from unsellable stock, and the customers who now suffer the ailments of an "Oops, human error. Our independent labs forgot to calibrate their non-medical, non-ISO, testing machine, or mixed-up results, or lied, saying they performed the $800.00 test, but they actually skipped that batch, since they only test 1:100 submissions.")

No offence, but having a UK based organization, to regulate a world-market, or dictate a US consumer market, makes as much sense as having a Chinese based organization doing the same thing to the UK. I am still confused about the intent, looking for customer support, when you need to be pitching this idea to the government, looking for US and UK grants and loans. But you are trying to reinvent the wheel, as all of these agencies already exist.

There would be no consumer trust or relevance in a "New agency", created to bypass approval of age-old agencies which already exist. It would seem as shady as the "Organic society", who approves non-organic foods all the time. (They still use pesticides and chemical gardening and processing, just a lot less.)

I am sure your heart is in the right place, but your actions are not. As consumers, it is up to us, to demand the suppliers provide this info, in the form of asking, and refusal to purchase from those who do not provide the required testing.

However, if you are going to create an active group of "Class action lawsuits", for those who continue to operate without the requested testing... You are in the correct place. Customers don't form agencies, groups with large backing and equipment and investors do that. Customers form groups, to protect other future customers, from sales-claims that are fraudulent, dangerous, and deceptive.

"U.S. group sues Coke over VitaminWater health claims"
EG... U.S. group sues Coke over VitaminWater health claims | U.S. | Reuters

Doesn't matter what society thinks is wrong, the "Regulatory associations that exist", already have the final word. All those people lost money, thinking they were going to get money in a useless lawsuit.

You have so much knowledge, it would be a shame to see it wasted, expending all your energy on the impossible.

It is better to label everything as "Unknown", than it is to pretend that science behind the math of the formulas is, "Safe". More people will place themselves at risk if they think it is "Safe", than if they were to approach it with caution, being "Unknown".

However... identifying things that are absolutely, "Harmful", is another story. (That is the WHO and FDA's job. No other types of personal/commercial/consumer agencies are allowed to say otherwise.)

No manufacture wants to wait for months while every possible mixture is tested, approved, and then able to go to market. Especially when they have already been tested, over and over and over again. At the moment it is issues with the production of unknown mixtures, and lack of labels, and home-brewers that are the safety issue. No organization can track these small brewers, and small brewers can't afford the expensive testing and long wait-periods. (Especially when they can't understand the reports, and have no idea how to make changes, and waste money shooting in the dark, in hopes of finding something not-harmful to mix. You can only do so much with a turkey-baster and farberware.)

As an individual group, with no power or money, you will not have any influence on anyone but those garage-mixers. They will just make a new website, move to a new mall, find new friends, or block your phone-numbers, mails, and e-mails. Without records, it would be difficult to prove that you had not tampered with the shipped items. (You as in, one agency, without government control and standards.)

I am not even sure what I would be supporting here.

[LuckySevens4U]

Heed - I doubt very much that there are a lot of resellers cutting their juice or rebottling it. I am ordering in e-juice to resell and have gotten many proposals from many manufacturers (device manufacturers, most of them end up using terms like "have made" or "order in" when I have specific requests, so I don't think any of them are making the juice.) What I'm finding is that there is very little difference in price per ml for 50ml bottles and 10ml bottles. If you were to order 50ml bottles and rebottle them in 10ml bottles that you purchased seperately, it would actually cost you more.

I know of one so called supplier inparticular who has openly admitted she actually makes her own juice and sells it. She buys it in bulk and make all her own flavors out of it with Lorans flavorings. This personally disgusts me.

[Mr Mojorisin]

Right to Vape ................ Vegsoc Approved Approval by the Veg Soc reassures consumers that the products meet the independent standards of a consumer organisation, For an annual fee the producer gets independent testing and approval, the use of the 'approved' trademark on packaging and marketing materials, some product promotion by the society, links, inclusion in a product database and the general goodwill and trust generated by a reputable consumer group..........
.

I think you are on the right track with modeling after an existing organization. I am not familiar with Veg Soc but finding someone that has done something similar to what you are trying to do can be very helpful. Once you find one (be it Veg Soc or another organization(s)) I would bet that they would be very helpful and a great resource regarding the pitfalls and issues that may present themselves.

Unfortunately private QA/QC organizations (especially those funded by the industry) often fall to the pressures of those funding them which in turn dillutes the real mission of the organization. Sometimes the "seal of approval" eventually becomes nothing more than proof that the seller paid a fee.

Thinking the entire process, criteria and structure through will be critical to the success and long term relevance of any such organization. I think you are correct in that you are not creating an organization until you know exactly what it will do and how it will do it. Sometimes people put the cart before the horse.

Proper Planning ........

[Angela]

No offence, but having a UK based organization, to regulate a world-market, or dictate a US consumer market, makes as much sense as having a Chinese based organization doing the same thing to the UK.

I had to read that 3 times to make sure that I hadn't mis-read or misundersood what you were saying.

I am actually trying really hard at the moment to be polite with my reply, but I'm not sure it is possible. It really is about time that some US citizens (and please, I do not wish to tar all Americans with the same brush) realised that the USA is not the only place in the civilized world. GRRRR

[Heed]

Heed - I doubt very much that there are a lot of resellers cutting their juice or rebottling it. I am ordering in e-juice to resell and have gotten many proposals from many manufacturers (device manufacturers, most of them end up using terms like "have made" or "order in" when I have specific requests, so I don't think any of them are making the juice.) What I'm finding is that there is very little difference in price per ml for 50ml bottles and 10ml bottles. If you were to order 50ml bottles and rebottle them in 10ml bottles that you purchased seperately, it would actually cost you more.

I'm talking about half kilo bottles (around 500 ml) and larger -- there's a big price break when you go to those sizes. Most wholesalers deal in these quantities or more.