New, pink E-cig!

[TropicalBob]

They Cant very well say that a heathier alternative to traditional tobacco is a no no.

They can, and will, tell you in a heartbeat that safe alternatives are already available in the form of nicotine patches, gums, lozenges, nasal spray, inhaler, etc. All tested and approved, at great cost. This unregulated e-smoking upstart is not needed. It will muddy waters for those enforcing "no smoking" rules. It could hook a new generation of nicotine addicts if it should somehow become fashionably 'cool'.

And, truthfully, no one knows the health impact or safety of inhaling this fluid multiple times every day. No one. We all assume it's safe, but assumptions won't garner governmental approval when the time comes.

Just how many reasons would you need to understand that government is not going to say, "Wow. We think this is healthier than smoking tobacco cigarettes, so we'll let unregulated liquids and devices made in China be sold freely in our country? And we'll gladly forego the taxes imposed on tobacco products. We want our country to have healthy smokers of addictive, poisonous liquid vaporized in a metal tube."

If you see a smooth road ahead, you must be smoking something I don't have available for my e-cigarettes. Dream on. Enjoy this ride while it lasts. I am.

[trog100]

Don't forget "mother" is going to be out on her neck very shortly as people are sick and tired of excessive taxation, high prices for every commodity including food and, of course, excessive nannying

i recon "mother" is gonna have more important things to worry about for quite some time.. like a collapsing economy.. people are gonna get even more sick and tired soon.. we are in for a rough ride.. but our e cigs will be safe i recon..

trog

[Kit]

They can, and will, tell you in a heartbeat that safe alternatives are already available in the form of nicotine patches, gums, lozenges, nasal spray, inhaler, etc. All tested and approved, at great cost. This unregulated e-smoking upstart is not needed. It will muddy waters for those enforcing "no smoking" rules. It could hook a new generation of nicotine addicts if it should somehow become fashionably 'cool'.

And, truthfully, no one knows the health impact or safety of inhaling this fluid multiple times every day. No one. We all assume it's safe, but assumptions won't garner governmental approval when the time comes.

Just how many reasons would you need to understand that government is not going to say, "Wow. We think this is healthier than smoking tobacco cigarettes, so we'll let unregulated liquids and devices made in China be sold freely in our country? And we'll gladly forego the taxes imposed on tobacco products. We want our country to have healthy smokers of addictive, poisonous liquid vaporized in a metal tube."

If you see a smooth road ahead, you must be smoking something I don't have available for my e-cigarettes. Dream on. Enjoy this ride while it lasts. I am.

How long do you reckon TB before the e-cig dream is over ?

[Lady Python]

True what you say TB but it's time people started standing up for themselves and stopped allowing various governments to push them around.

If the French don't like something their government does they give a very firm "Mais non, Monsieurs" and usually bring their country to a standstill or just ignore whatever it is their government has done.

Germany and Holland are also places to watch just now. Many people are fed up with their respective nanny states taking more and more control over their lives and there is the beginnings of a major backlash against this and not before time too.

People nowadays need to grow a backbone!

[SmokeyJoe]

Hi>>>>>The Emperor of Ice Cream... We are compiling a list of Pubs that carry the E.smoking logo and we will be adding it to our site in the future... It barely scratches the surfaces though as there are 10s of thousands of Pubs out there and to reach even 5% takes a massive amount of time and energy...But we will keep moving this initiative forwards..


Mr Darcy>>> good to see you again And i hope alls well with you.

Difficult to call IMHO what the government think of E. Smoking... They Cant very well say that a heathier alternative to traditional tobacco is a no no... But who knows.

My own thoughts are that as long as the Nicotine fluid can be passed by the correct UK based Laboratories then they dont have a leg to stand on other than sanction the E.Cig as they have with NRT. As you know this is freely available on the NHS...

I think Supersmoker have carried out independant assessments of the fluid used in their cartridges and have some very well respected proffessionals giving it the all clear... So
probably this is the ay to go, we have not quite reached this point yet but have spoken to an independant testing company for their analysis, as yet we have not committed to letting them tun tests as financially it is a big commitment...But its on the horizon...

I wish this were the case, but UK law is pretty clear on medicine and tobacco regulation. I think the relevant agencies are tolerating e-smoking for the time being since it is currently a minor part of the market.

As the law stands, e-cigarettes will have to be classified as medicinal products for them to be fully legitimate, since they contain nicotine.

Each method of medical nicotine delivery has had to go through clinical trials to demonstrate its effectiveness for cessation. The same trials will have to be carried out on e-cigs in order for them to become legitimate.

Who knows what the results of those trials would be? I'm not too hopeful. In fact, I'm deeply pessimistic about the whole thing.

The most likely scenario that I can envisage is suppliers will be able to sell the devices, but users will have to import their own nicotine supplies, exactly the same set up as with drug paraphernalia (in the UK that is).

The e-cig would go from being the brave new hope of responsible harm reduction to being sat on the market stall with the bongs and pipes and oddly shaped cigarette papers.

The only hope is in harm reduction being taken seriously as a public health strategy. There have been numerous attempts to get this to happen, but the main problem is that HR is pretty unpalatable to the public as a whole since addiction issues tend to be viewed with a pretty unsympathetic eye.

I considered the e-cig logo strategy a long while back as a campaigning idea, but changed my mind when I realized how counterproductive it would actually be. One must remember that the public at large is strongly in favour of the tobacco ban (roughly 2 thirds). Seeing the logo in pubs is not very likely to get non-smokers sympathetic to the cause, but quite likely to cause a reaction against e-smoking.

I realise that for a commercial enterprise it would be a pretty tempting, and relatively easy way of getting some short term publicity/notoriety and perhaps there is enough public awareness of e-cigs now that it could have some limited positive impact - I couldn't say with any certainty, but I do suspect that it is still too soon.

IMO the real work has to be done via a top-down approach. Medical professionals, public health experts, MPs etc etc must be educated about the great benefits of e-smoking as a harm reduction strategy.

So that is where we should organise......

[SmokeyJoe]

True what you say TB but it's time people started standing up for themselves and stopped allowing various governments to push them around.

If the French don't like something their government does they give a very firm "Mais non, Monsieurs" and usually bring their country to a standstill or just ignore whatever it is their government has done.

Germany and Holland are also places to watch just now. Many people are fed up with their respective nanny states taking more and more control over their lives and there is the beginnings of a major backlash against this and not before time too.

People nowadays need to grow a backbone!

I hear you LP, but you know full well that the majority of the public is now firmly opposed to smokers. The "mass uprising" idea can't happen because the mass is against the issue at hand!

Perhaps if truckers felt passionately about e-cigs they could block our ports a la France. Otherwise, we nicotine users must not kid ourselves that we have much sympathy.

Again, we are in the right on this one. Logically, the harm reduction benefits of e-cig technology are tremendous - we just have to be tactical and get the right kind of support.

[SmokeyJoe]

Oh, and what TB said!

[Lady Python]

Not wanting to burst your bubble here SmokeyJoe but had to laugh when I saw where you got the statement "strongly in favour of the tobacco ban" from - ASH's website no less, the biggest cheats and liars on the planet!

Now where do you think they got that from? It wasn't you or me or the public in general.

They got that through a survey they conducted some time ago which they passed off as being from the "general public" but in fact was made up from ASH representatives themselves, CRUK and the medical profession.

The general public WAS NEVER ASKED if they wanted a ban or not.

Independent polls run by both national and local newspapers, when asking if people are in favour of the smoking ban or against the smoking ban have overwhelmingly been AGAINST the smoking ban. ASH and the government however choose to completely ignore public opinion.

That is not democratic. That is dictorial.

Also, in Nu Labour's election manifesto in 1997 they advocated a partial ban, not a blanket ban. They lied and cheated to the public.

It's also worth mentioning that Deborah Arnott of ASH was quoted as saying that SHS was "...a confidence trick". That statement is very well documented and showed ASH up for the cheats and liars that they are.

Every study that has been done that's backed smoking bans have been funded by the big pharmaceuticals to give the results they want. Other studies that have been done that shows the SHS debate for what it is, a myth has either been rubbished or buried. However, learned scientists and many doctors are getting fed up with the junk science that's being spouted by the likes of ASH and other anti-smoking groups and are distancing themselves (rightly) from it and also countermanding these.

More recently ASH has been trumpeting how wonderful the smoking ban is. Try telling that to the thousands who have lost their livelihoods, who are about to lose their livelihoods and the millions of people, both smokers and non-smokers who have had their social lives completely ruined by these zealots. Try telling that to our elderly people who are thrown out in the bitter cold and wet just because they are smokers. Many of these people who fought to keep this country free and fought for our civil liberties which the likes of ASH et al are hell bent on destroying.

It is a wise saying "To be forewarned is to be forearmed" and if you want to see e-cigs being successful and not going the way tobacco cigs are, then it would be very wise to learn everything you can about the anti-smoking lobby and how deviously it works.

[SmokeyJoe]

Not wanting to burst your bubble here SmokeyJoe but had to laugh when I saw where you got the statement "strongly in favour of the tobacco ban" from - ASH's website no less, the biggest cheats and liars on the planet!

Now where do you think they got that from? It wasn't you or me or the public in general.

They got that through a survey they conducted some time ago which they passed off as being from the "general public" but in fact was made up from ASH representatives themselves, CRUK and the medical profession.

The general public WAS NEVER ASKED if they wanted a ban or not.

My bubble remains intact...although it was probably a mistake for me to link to ASH given the controversy that surrounds them, but all my points still stand.

Also, please look at their page again. All their research is sourced -

1] Smoking related behaviour and attitudes 2007. ONS, 2008. http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/smoke0608.pdf [2] YouGov poll. Key findings of the survey are available at: http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_684.pdf
Total sample size was 3,329 adults. Fieldwork was undertaken between 20th - 25th February 2008. The survey was carried out online. The figures have been weighted and are representative of all GB adults (aged 18 ). The study was a collaboration between ASH, ASH Scotland and ASH Wales. The sample size for the England data was 1056.

So that is data from office of national statistics Statistics Authority and a YouGov poll that ASH commissioned. Nothing of the sort that you allege.


All the polls that I have seen show that the public is overwhelmingly in favour of the ban.

If you could show me some polls that show otherwise I would, of course, love to see them.

[SmokeyJoe]

In any case, I don't want to be drawn into a discussion over the rights and wrongs of the smoking ban. It's done now and it won't be reversed.

This site is about e-smoking.

It is a wise saying "To be forewarned is to be forearmed" and if you want to see e-cigs being successful and not going the way tobacco cigs are, then it would be very wise to learn everything you can about the anti-smoking lobby and how deviously it works.

As it happens, I haven't seen anything by ASH on e-cigarettes.

Might it not be a good idea to try to convince them of the benefits of e-cig technology?

Have a look at their harm-reduction page: http://www.ash.org.uk/ash_1qh94yfn.htm

One way of reducing the harm caused by tobacco may be to facilitate the switch from smoked tobacco products to the use of ‘clean’, non-tobacco, nicotine products.

That, at least, looks like they are reading from the same page as us on e-cigarettes.