Reusable or Disposable?

[MNZ]

I think this is going to be a subject debated a fair bit over the next period of time as manufacturers develop new approaches to the problem of atomiser life.

What if there was a better atomiser out there ? What if it would last for a year or maybe longer ? Would you buy it if it wasn't $8.00 but more like $80 ?

What if there was a disposable that lasted a reasonable length of time per cart and was price favourable, would you accept that to get the end price down, there might be cuts in build quality and there maybe out of the box failures ?

[trog100]

@jarvis: really well done, but I must agree with Jag...

Even if it would work, the pieces are so tiny, not every user would be able to handle these small pieces I think...

News: We have just finished a trow away atomizer inside the cartridge model, just like the LT. Ok to be honest: we purchased the LT and copied it, then we improved it. Needs a bit more testing but looks alright for now... it's just that we think it still is kind of unnecessary waste, so we are considering other options too.

it is unnecessary waste.. its going from one extreme to the other.. another option would be to include (free) atomizers with every box of carts.. the price of the carts would be worked out to cover the cost of the atomizers..

anything is better then the current return merry go round.. one (current) atomizer with every ten box of carts for example would do the trick..

disposable after xxx carts is the sensible way to go.. it helps the planet as well..

trog

[Ludo]

that could indeed be a good alternative!

[trog100]

that could indeed be a good alternative!

an atomizer with xxx number of carts is the only alternative to throw one away each time a cart is changed..

the customer has to know when to throw them away.. it could be every twenty carts.. but for guaranteed as new functionality and to be seen as truly disposable it needs to be less..

one atomizer every ten carts is about right i think..

when the customer buys the original first kit.. he registers it.. this then entitles him to the free atomizer with every ten cart system..

the initial kit price could be kept higher than the simple sum total of the parts to solve the other problem..

the customer is locked into your system and everyone is happy..

u can also use the "save the planet" thing to your advantage

trog

[leaford]

Damn you trog!!!! Damn you!!!

That was my secret plan for the business I'd start if I won a half-decent lottery pot!! Concentrate on selling the cartridges, with a Free atomizer every 15 cartridges. (Well, maybe 25. Or 50. Whatever, I'd work it out. )

But now my secret plot has been revealed, and someone's gonna copy it and beat poor, broke me to it.

Maybe I should listen to Gary Coleman and make a Cashcall.

[TropicalBob]

There likely will be both categories for a long, long time -- assuming they are approved by government agencies at all.

Remember Zippo lighters? Flints were very tiny, but we replaced them. We refilled the core with squirted liquid (napalm basically). Zippos are still sold, but were eclipsed by throwaway lighters. My latest pipe lighter is a combo: I can refill it about three times with butane, but when the flint dies, I have to toss it.

Remember razor blades and shavers. We used to replace the blade. Now we toss the entire shaver.

And think of roll-your-own cigarettes. Lots of advancements to make this cheap practice easier, but rollies are still a tiny segment of the tobacco-product market.

Whenever I explain my e-cigarette to smoking friends, they're always intensely interested until I'm asked how often I must drip, or refill, or change a battery. End of discussion. Too much trouble. Gotta light it, use it, toss it. Thirty times a day. Not one has expressed interest in buying a refillable e-cig. When it's as simple as buying a pack of cigarettes, they tell me, they'll try it.

I expect we'll see continued development of true disposables. I also expect we'll see something along the lines of Trog's excellent idea. But when these break into tobacco stores, resting beside Kool and Kent, it will be the disposable model (cheaper and easier to try out) that will attract the mass market.

Cover all bets, Ludo.

[Kate]

We don't really have a true disposable at the moment, even the Loong Totem uses rechargeable batteries. What we have is disposable and semi-disposable atomisers, inadequate batteries and in some cases unreliable switches.

A true disposable would use a cheap throw away battery and atomiser/cartridge. It would not be refillable. This would probably be less environmentally friendly than reusables or semi-disposables and there would be problems of getting consistent taste and nicotine levels but it would be good for specific occasions.

The semi-disposables we have now are not supposed to be considered disposables but they don't last long enough to be considered true reusables. Replacing atomisers per cartridge count is what we do now in a roundabout way except we can never be sure when they will need replacing without being wasteful. Being tied to a company for juice as well as hardware doesn't appeal to me, I like to be able to pick and choose from different suppliers for recipes I like and trust. Device manufacturers are not necessarily going to provide good eliquid, I don't think they should be tied together for service.

Reusables will need new technology. Decent generic batteries such as used with the Ruyan ecigar, Trog's Screwdriver and Janty USB cable would remove the high cost of replacing the overworked dedicated batteries that come with the devices. Switch technology should certainly be able to produce a long lasting, reliable switch, it's just a matter of making it look good. That leaves reusable atomisers. I don't know why somebody hasn't tried out the original Ruyan ultrasonic design. If it's because of cost I'm sure there are plenty of people who would be prepared to invest more money in an atomiser that lasts a year if that is its potential.

Another possibility is a hybrid device that uses components from different sources in a similar way hi-fi can be built with separates. Eventually all components could be interchangeable between brands and we could have cheap, generic rechargeable batteries, long lasting switches and an atomiser cartridge combo like the Loong Totem or a genuinely durable re-engineered reusable atomiser. I'd like a reusable, that would let me choose different eliquid brands and tastes for different moods.

[icemanmaz]

A throw away idea would be ok if we did not have to pay for the postage.
I have paid £26 for a full kit with free p&p and it has lasted over 2 months.
Its still going strong with no problems. So for me paying say £5 for a throw away e-cig would be a waste of money. And one other thing at the rate Royal Mail lose things in the post it could be well expensive.
On the other side if I could go to the local shop and buy a throw away e-cig not only would it be better it would be a good way for those who smoke to try it out.
One idea I had was a vending machine at an airport with throw away e-cigs. Imaging all the smokers buying it for a long haul flight.
If someone could invent a e-cig that could last for 14 hours for less than £5 and it could be sold in an airport or on the plane it would be a real money spinner.
NOTE TO ALL.
I came up with idea so if someone copies it I will sue for copyright.
All suppliers if you could come up with something pm me and I will go on dragons den and ask for £1000000 for 5%.
If you dont know what dragons den is you dont live in UK.

[TropicalBob]

If batteries are stopping progress, I'm tempted to say "find a new source of energy." Like -- blow into the e-cig and the force of your blow creates just enough power to heat an atomizer as you inhale the vapor. (I have flashlights and radios for hurricane use that create power with a few cranks of a handle. No batteries ever needed.)

But, what the heck, I'll buy into the cell phone model of power: At the end of the day, I don't throw my phone away because the battery is run down. I plug it in and recharge for another day's use. I'd do the same for a basic disposable cart/atomizer device. We need a cell phone-model e-cig with a battery that lasts a day or longer.

And, I'm with you on this, we need a Transformer hybrid, an either-or device. Such a bridge device could be the best of both worlds. I'd buy it!

[trog100]

one thing is for sure true disposables are a planetary disaster.. a small cheap-ish five in a packet disposable version of the ruyan e cigar could easily be made now..

these things really do need to be disposable/reusable.. just simply sold in a more sensible way.. if they are to be sold to the masses.. how often they are disposed of simply comes down to how long each component lasts.. right now it isnt very long..

loong totem looked to be on winner with their high value (high capacity) zippo like battery but they are full of bullsh-t and dont even have one made.. i would happily have payed them big money for the zippo battery part of the kit..

my screwdriver is simply like their zippo but i havnt felt the need to make it look like a tobacco product.. a bloody zippo lighter.. jeeesh..

the cheap-ish five in a packet disposable will appear.. but they wont be very planet friendly.. just imagine all those landfills full of dead batteries.. he he

i aint a businessman by inclination.. just for fun i might put a screwdriver up for auction on ebay next week.. just to see "who" buys it..

trog