I need the antifreeze thing cleared up

[thewomenfolk]

I can't find a thread that fully explains why we can accurately claim that the PG we use is not the same thing that's used in Antifreeze.

Is Proplyene Glycol actually stated on bottles of Vanilla flavoring as an ingredient? Is it also stated as an ingredient on Antifreeze bottles? I'm confused.

[skyward]

anti freeze is ethylene glycol, it's apples and oranges

[tmbrown327]

PG is used in a lot of ways. One of the uses is in anti-freeze, a way to make it less or non-toxic. I'm sure they use a less pure (industrial) grade for this application, but it's still PG. Just the fact that it's used as an ingredient in this application doesn't mean it's harmful to us. There are a lot of threads on this.

[AngusATAT]

PG is used in a lot of liquid medications. Somehow I doubt that means that the pharmacists are all out to kill us.

Water is also an ingredient found in antifreeze. Does that mean the FDA should ban water?

It's called scare tactics.

[Nokosa]

Water is also an ingredient found in antifreeze. Does that mean the FDA should ban water?

It's called scare tactics.

This is pretty much the answer. There are several ingredients in anti-freeze that we use commonly on a daily basis, such as water.

Just because an ingredient is found in something harmful to us doesn't make that ingredient itself harmful.

Think of it as chemistry. Take two perfectly harmless ingredients and mix them together and they can make a deadly poison. Same concept.

PG is perfectly fine. PG, as an ingredient itself, is approved by the FDA. Go figure.

[catwoman19]

PG is used in a lot of liquid medications. Somehow I doubt that means that the pharmacists are all out to kill us.

Water is also an ingredient found in antifreeze. Does that mean the FDA should ban water?

It's called scare tactics.

Splenda is derived from sugar but it's first use was in clorox, I still use it in my coffee. You would have to be a chemist to assess what is toxic or not.Pg is also used in icing

[RenaissancePuffer]

While the wiki is not always the best source of information, their entry for PG is a good one. This may help answer some questions.

Propylene glycol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[thewomenfolk]

Thanks for all your answers. Now I can at least speak about the issue with some real knowledge. Thanks for the Wiki link, good info! As for Proplylene Glycol it says... "The most direct way of applying a substance to the human body is injection into the blood or the tissue, closely followed by ingestion or inhalation. Making the curing agent reliably available to the organism is key to the efficiency of any pharmaceutical application. Propylene glycol USP/EP (pharmaceutical grade) is qualified and approved for this use as laid down in the respective Pharmacopoeia (USA, EU, Japan etc.)."

Yepsidoozers!!!

[dedmonwakin]

"In all fairness, it should be stated that PG was only added to anti-freeze to replace Ethylene Glycol. It had been a problem because dogs often lap up puddles of anti-freeze."

Propylene Glycol: The Good, the Bad and the Alternatives

[Estrid]

I used to work in supplements, and for YEARS the FDA has been trying to convince people that PG is safe for consumption.

accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=582.1666

It's commonly used like aforementioned as an additive or carrier in medications, as well as used in foods, cosmetics, deodorants, supplements (Twinlabs Fish Oil for one) etc. I think it's hilarious that they use the preexisting public stigma of a product they've pushed so hard to show is safe to villainize a product that can save millions of lives. The wording I noticed in one of these reports given - "Propylene glycol is a component of antifreeze, a known carcinogen".

Unless the FDA is referring to carcinogens as "Generally recognized as safe", then the only concerns remain about ethylene glycol, and methanol which according to the same databases, either of which are carcinogenic either. Now you don't want to go ingesting the stuff either, for example ethylene glycol is known to cause crystallization/calcification in tissue, eg: kidneys.

From the CDC Agency for Toxic Substances & Disease Registry:

• Ethylene glycol ingestion first affects the central nervous system (CNS). After a characteristic latent period, signs of inebriation may be followed by serious illness and even death, caused by toxic metabolites.
  
  Propylene glycol, which is much less toxic than ethylene glycol, is metabolized to compounds that are normal constituents of the citric acid cycle.
  
  No health effects have been reported in persons chronically exposed to ethylene glycol or propylene glycol at levels found in the environment.

This said I would be concerned about the material components used in liquids but if you're buying from a reputable dealer the likelihood that your liquid is any more dangerous than fish oil or cough syrup is slim. There is such a wealth of information and misinformation out there and the FDA, as always, is at the forefront.

(Maybe the better question is who stands to gain from a ban on a product that would potentially save one in ten lives? philly.com/inquirer/health_science/daily/20090924_FDA_bans_flavored_cigarettes.html)