Question for those who think we should not vape where we can not smoke... - Page 23
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Thread: Question for those who think we should not vape where we can not smoke...

  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcalvanese View Post
    I think the problem here is that most doctors do feel that e-cigs are way better than smoking, they are waiting for enough studies to be done before they officialy go on record as saying they are a safer alterative to smoking.
    But if the ANTZ get their way, the studies that ARE being done are being repressed and/or denounced as false.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoiDman View Post
    BTW - Here is an Good Read when it comes to Both Sides of the Vaping Coin.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_c...m_i_a_bad_guy/
    great link!
    I especially like this comment:

    That's because we've been trained well to understand that we have no rights, only granted privileges. This understanding is often accompanied by an unswerving compulsion to never upset the herd. Unfortunately, what is not understood so well is the fact that the herd actively seeks reasons to be upset if no real reasons are provided.
    Thank you very much for showing this to us. What a lovely surprise
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  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by EddardinWinter View Post
    I keep hearing 'decency' in this thread. I hear this term used a lot in this forum whenever this topic comes up. I want to clarify what that is, because to me what is decent may not be decent to you. So I have a few questions about it. Honestly, I am not trying to flame anyone, I just want to understand the perspective/meaning intended from a word that has multiple meanings for different people, and the implications of its use.

    Does it mean that if your definition of 'decency' is not met, then those not meeting it are indecent people, or are their actions indecent?
    Are the youths smoking near the movie theater entrance indecent?
    Am I indecent because I vape in the indoor common area of a large, two-story mall? I vaped openly but not flamboyantly. I took in one large draw, held it for a while (a bit longer than usual) and breathed out. I did so because I did not wish to take three or four puffs while walking down the middle of the mall. I was not trying to "blow a huge cloud", but I was not trying to hide it either. Does my choice make me less 'decent'?

    Now your just being deliberately obtuse.





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  4. #224
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    DC et al,

    Gonna have to deep six dis thread. 'Nuff's nuff!

    Cat chasing tail, cuttin' off nose and all da other crap...

    Just a few observations 'fore I leave ya'll to wrestle and wallow in da vapin' muds:

    - Follow da money
    - Not all vapin' activists blow voluminous clouds vapor in every ones' faces
    - Not all vapin' pacifists live in closets/basements/under bridges
    - We should promote vapin' to da unknowing, and especially da media
    - Educate whenever possible via civiized means
    - Be bold, brave and respectful!

    I'll continue to try and garner more v-verts ('bout 50 thus far) by being grateful I quit da 'bakky and letting folk approach me due to my vapin' visibility. I'll also continue to support all those that are willing to fight for the right to improve their health. As for the others... <sigh>
    DC2, Uma, AttyPops and 6 others like this.
    If I'm awake, I vape!
    No 'bakky' since Apr 14, 2011, after 45 years of 2 PaD <insert Snoopy dance here>



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    Quote Originally Posted by Robino1 View Post
    But if the ANTZ get their way, the studies that ARE being done are being repressed and/or denounced as false.
    I know it sucks, but people that complain about the negative don't need proof, and have nothing to risk, and bad news (true or not) travels faster than good news.

    I think one day all the necessary studies will be done then everyone will know the facts. If and when that day comes and if it is found that vaping is a safe alternative to smoking, the medical community will go on the record to support it.

    Just my hope anyway...
    ~Bob~


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    Quote Originally Posted by Robino1 View Post
    What is really surprising to me is that more and more of the medical community aren't getting on board with e-cigs being a viable alternative and safer than smoking. Yet they are not being vocal? If they would stand up and be counted..... It seems as only those that are against it are getting the press. Yet time and time again I hear, from members here, that their doctor has either approved, recommended, or has seen the improvement of their patients in regards to e-cigs.

    If we could somehow get those pro e-cig doctors to be counted..... Wishful thinking, I'm sure...
    I believe it's because of the fear of malpractice lawsuits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoiDman View Post
    All good Points.

    But Business Owners don't like having the Cops coming to their place of Business every week. And neither do the other Paying Customers.

    The point is I can see problems with Some, less Respectful - More Militant, vapers if e-Cigarette use is Purely left up to Individual Vaper's / Business Owners.

    ---

    BTW - Do you think it is OK to use an e-Cigarette while Pumping Gas at a Gas Station?
    Sure, some people will attempt to circumvent the rule and each business will deal with them as they see fit - most likely "sir, you need to take that outside". Creating a law banning them in public places would change absolutely nothing. If you go to a restaurant tonight and start vaping, the owner is already allowed to tell you to stop or allowed to ask you to leave. If you don't comply he's also allowed to call the cops because you're breaking the policies of that establishment (though as you pointed out, that would be a last resort, law or not). The cops may choose not to arrest you but they're definitely going to escort you off the property. So what extra ability would the law give the restaurant owner?

    The only thing creating a law against vaping in public would accomplish is to deny businesses the option of allowing vaping. Why shouldn't private businesses be allowed to say "we welcome vapors"? There is no reason to deny that option until we discover vaping is harmful, until that point people should be allowed to decide on their own if they want to be around it or not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmellYaLaterCigs View Post
    Sure, some people will attempt to circumvent the rule and each business will deal with them as they see fit - most likely "sir, you need to take that outside". Creating a law banning them in public places would change absolutely nothing. If you go to a restaurant tonight and start vaping, the owner is already allowed to tell you to stop or allowed to ask you to leave. If you don't comply he's also allowed to call the cops because you're breaking the policies of that establishment (though as you pointed out, that would be a last resort, law or not). The cops may choose not to arrest you but they're definitely going to escort you off the property. So what extra ability would the law give the restaurant owner?

    The only thing creating a law against vaping in public would accomplish is to deny businesses the option of allowing vaping. Why shouldn't private businesses be allowed to say "we welcome vapors"? There is no reason to deny that option until we discover vaping is harmful, until that point people should be allowed to decide on their own if they want to be around it or not.
    Unfortunately, without the Possibility of Punishment, Rules have Little Meaning. Anyone who has Raised Children knows that.

    Where as there are Definitely to Two Sides to a Ban, does the possible Inability of those who want there to be No Vaping Allowed in their establishment Outweigh those who would like vaping to be Allowed?

    Tough Call. Because there is going to be One Side who Doesn't like the Outcome.

    BTW - What is your Position on the Larger Issue of Vaping in Enclosed spaces in the Workplace? It would seem that Consumers have a Choice where they Frequent. But the Workplace brings up More Unique Challenges.

    Do you think a Company has the "Right" to Allow or Dis-Allow Vaping in Enclosed Spaces?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Willie View Post
    The same answer I use on every thread like this that I post on .. "Until concrete regulations are in place as to the exact where and when a PV can be used, I use what I consider common sense .. I'm not going to puff up at a Church, at a Theater, at a Hospital, I live in a State that initiated a State wide public ban for indoor areas quite some time ago and I am not so tethered to my PV that I can't put it down when rational thinking says you should put it down.. "

    I fight regularly .. but my fight is thru teaching the uninformed .. those that want to "fight" may want to consider giving a presentation to any number of your local Civic organizations such as the Kiwanis Club and others .. these folks are always looking for a speaker ...

    Happy .. ??
    If you use common sense, then why does your "common sense" equate vaping to smoking. That is what is at the core of the issue.

    Vaping is to smoking as drinking water is to drinking vodka. (ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE VAPING ZERO NIC JUICE)

    Both liquids are clear, both liquids are put into a glass, and both liquids are consumed by drinking. However that's where the simularities end.

    How can we convince the uninformed that vaping is NOT smoking if we can't convince ourselves?

    When you divorce vaping from smoking then you begin to see how all ridiculous all the objections sound.

    Vape on it's own is no different than perfume, anti-perspirant, cologne, air freshener. etc. In fact many of the "air fresheners" we spray around our house consist of hazardous chemicals by the score. Take a toke of Lysol and tell me how you feel. Yet the public use of these products go without saying. So why is vape so special? Because it is primarily used by "ex smokers" or smokers trying to quit.

    Vaping is stygmatized not because what it is, but because of who WE ARE (or WERE).

    When we as vapers continue to treat vaping as the same as smoking, they only further the false perception that vaping is somehow equivalent to smoking.

    I am all for being "considerate" and "decent". I really wish the e-cig community would stop using terms like "clean smoke" and "smoke anywhere". They only serve to reinforce the perception that vaping equals smoking.

    That is the message that needs to be driven home. Vaping is not smoking. Vapers don't smoke and e-cigarettes are not cigarettes. If "we the people" want to establish standards of courtesy and manners regarding vaping, I don't have a problem with that. Just so long as those standards are not based on the presumption that vaping and smoking ought to somehow be treated the same.

    If we are going to institute bans on vaping simply because it can be confused with smoking or looks like smoking, then we should also ban the sale of water to minors (looks like vodka), ban the drinking of water except where alcohol can be consumed (to avoid confusion in the enforcement of alcohol restrictions). And discourage people from drinking water because it can be a gateway to drinking alcohol.

    If this sounds ludicrous to you, it should. The same way that bans on vaping are ludicrous for the very same reasons.
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    Its all about the MONEY. Vapers are cutting into Big Tobacco's profits. What are the punishments for the bans if caught? A fine usually. The governments are broke, they need money. The Pharma companies need money too. They care less about ones health unless it has dollar signs attached to it. Remember there are no cures, just Treatment of ailments. Illinois has a new law that will fine people that throw their butts on the ground. Lunacy i say, since Illinois already has Littering laws on the books. We all are grown up and dont need baby sitters or micro-managers running our lives.

    Another aspect of the bans are they don't want the Children seeing it. Its for the children's safety.......i could ramble on and on.
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