Feeling Strange and Major Panic Attacks

[Faethe]

Originally Posted by Variety202

hello! I am new here and am waiting for my fisrt e cigarette to arrive in the mail.
I have some questions though.
I suffer from a anxiety disorder and have some sensitivities to caffine and nicotine. I am a smoker (i should quit due to my disorder because it can aggrivate it sometimes) an I love nicotine. I'm not a full blown chain smoker though i smoke about a half a pack a day maybe a pack. My brand is camel turkish silvers. I was wondering if anyone knows how much nic is in a camel. I was also wondering how many drops of e juice should i start off with. I ordered the low apple from TW. Maybe 1 or 2 drops to start out with? Will 1 or 2 drops be enough to moisten a empty cartridge and not burn out the atomizer?
I am looking forward to having a good experience with the e cigarette but at the same time a little nervous. I don't want to over do it and get sick.
Also if i decided to dilute my drops how should i go about it in a safe manner.
Any responses will be greatly appreciated.

You WILL feel it if it's too high. No other way to explain it. Think of it this way: have you ever smoked an unfiltered cigarette or inhaled cigar smoke into your lungs? You know like right now whether you are comfortable with it. No two ways about it.

Low is good. This way you can also cut it with some store bought PG or VG if it's not. Or you know what to buy next time, for sure.

[jbbishop]

Been vaping with straight glycerin for a couple of hours and I don't notice any problems yet.

So, my plan was to order the 18mg VG from Johnson Creek this week.

After I get some medication I think I'll try diluting the TW by 50% and testing with that.

[Variety202]

Originally Posted by Faethe

You WILL feel it if it's too high. No other way to explain it. Think of it this way: have you ever smoked an unfiltered cigarette or inhaled cigar smoke into your lungs? You know like right now whether you are comfortable with it. No two ways about it.

Low is good. This way you can also cut it with some store bought PG or VG if it's not. Or you know what to buy next time, for sure.

thanks for your response

[Variety202]

Originally Posted by jbbishop

Been vaping with straight glycerin for a couple of hours and I don't notice any problems yet.

So, my plan was to order the 18mg VG from Johnson Creek this week.

After I get some medication I think I'll try diluting the TW by 50% and testing with that.

Have you been feeling any better?

[jbbishop]

This is where I am at: I received the JC 18mg. Non-PG "Tennessee Flue Cured" today and I've been using it, sometimes heavily, for several hours.

This is not going to cause me any of the symptoms I've described before of feeling "strange" (dizziness/spaceyness/foggy headed -- like my mind is far away and I can't focus) or the very alarming panic attacks that followed and seemed to be strongly correlated with these strange feelings.

This is also discussed here: Dizziness/Spaceyness/Foggy-Headedness

At one point I might have gotten a little too much nicotine and this resolved within 5 minutes -- unlike my previous experience which lingered for 4-5 hours and more once it got built up in my system even when using a diluted solution, so it's not the nicotine causing these problems.

Now the sad part: This stuff is not nearly as satisfying as the 36mg. TW Marlboro I had (and I don't believe this is because of the nicotine content - because I can just vape more), plus I really don't like that it tastes like pipe tobacco for a regular smoke (glad the rest of you like it). I mean, it's more flavorful, but there isn't the same kind of throat or lung hit that the TW gave (and which is why I bought it in the first place) and which made it seem very satisfying aside from the problems I personally had with it. I'm sure it isn't going to be nearly as easy to entirely replace my cigarette habit with this stuff because it doesn't seem to quell the cravings nearly as well as the other.

I don't really know whether the vapor from PG could be inherently more satisfying than that of VG. It is one consideration. I don't know whether the problems the TW gave me were because of the PG or if it was due to one of the 10 other unpronounceable ingredients it has that the JC does not. But I suspect that it is due to some of these other ingredients that the TW gives the better hit and is more satisfying aside from the problems I had using it.

So I'm glad I found an alternative that I can tolerate but I'm sad that it's not going to work as well for me

Now I need to know if the PG is causing any of these problems or if these are because of something else in the TW formulation.

Here's the ingredient lists:

JC :
Food Grade Vegetable Glycerin
natural and artificial flavors
tobacco essential oil (virginia)
tobacco absolute (Burley)
citric acid, lemon <1%
vinegar <1%
distilled water
(nicotine)

TW:
1. tobacco essence oil <5%
2. tobacco lead oil <5% (leaf?)
3. nicotine (from tobacco leaf)<3%
4. 2,3,5, trimethylpyrazine<1%
5. 2,3,5,6, tetramethylpyrazine <1%
6. 2,3 dimethylpyrazine <1%
7. 2-acetypyrazine <1%
8. 2-methyl butyic acid <1%
9. terp ineol <1%
10 ethyl maltol <1%
11. guaiacol <1%
12. acetyl pyridine <2%
13. octalactone(gamma)<1%
14. pure water<10%
15. propylene glycol >65%
16. glycerol <20%

It may be that other Chinese suppliers have similar ingredients. What's David Yang's ingredient list over at Eastmall? I believe it is claimed that he gets his from a source that supplies 90% of the industry and someone speculated that therefore his might be from the same source that TW gets theirs from...

[strayling]

The thing about high strength liquid is that even that won't provide all the physical cues you get from smoking an analog, so you have to relearn what your body is telling you. You'll get a nicotine buzz, sure, but your body won't protest and say "enough" by making you immediately feel queasy and "smoked out". It's hard to describe, but take it easy on the high strength and you'll soon know to recognise how you feel when you've vaped enough.

"strayling"

[Monkeylurv]

JB:

I have a feeling it is the PG. If you read here, I had an encounter with mild lactic acidosis a couple years ago from a medication I was taking:

How Confident Are We That These Are Actually Safe?

It can make you feel like you are having a panic attack - it increases respiration, and you'll feel like you are breathing fast/mildly hyperventilating. I believe that this experience I had with PG the past few days was an even milder version. I took some baking soda & water today and felt mucho better. I will be trying VG before I call the whole thing quits.

Some people are just more prone to LA or buildup of Lactic Acid. People with lower kidney/liver function, and even people who may have a genetic predisposition to removing lactic acid may encounter a problem with PG. Even people who drink too much alcohol are at risk (kidney/liver function).

I didn't realize the lactic acid would be such an issue. I was just kidding myself & hoping it would be the equivalent of exercising.

Stick with the JC & stay away from the PG.

ETA: My first occurance of lactic acidosis I actually had very severe palpitations. They lasted about 48 hrs. It was a little worse than "mild" actually. So I can see it can very easily be mistaken for nicotine overdose.

[jbbishop]

The PG theory is one I'm favoring because it would tend to explain why alcohol did not mitigate my panic-related symptoms (much) but maybe sorta kinda made it worse which is usually not the case. Apparently alcohol can contribute to a build-up of lactic acid as well. Usually if I don't have any proper medication (benzodiazapenes) I can consume a healthy portion of alcohol and get my panic attacks to back off. I don't usually like to do this because I'm the kind of guy who gets by with one or two beers. Sometimes this doesn't work and I have to resort to other undesirable medications combined with alcohol like amtriptyline or seroquel as a last resort to force myself to pass out. Gee. Maybe 10 cents worth of valium would be a nice thing for them to have on the back of an ambulance to prevent a $3000 ride to the hospital emergency room strapped to a gurney! I had one experience where even these measures didn't work. Just try to go anywhere smelling like alcohol and ask for a valium. I'll get another 3 month supply from my doctor when I visit on the 10th because some days I can't even have my single cup of coffee.

[Monkeylurv]

JB: Not to wave a magic wand & associate your problems with mine. But have your doctor check your cortisol levels.

When I have low cortisol, I have pain - joint & muscle. Cortisol is your stress & anti-inflammatory hormone. Caffeine - forget it. That'll throw you into a "panic attack" if you have low cortisol. I use to have what I thought were panic attacks, but it was actually hypoglycemia caused by low cortisol.

Getting off caffeine actually enabled me to be able to get off steroids due to adrenal insufficiency. Caffeine is just tough on your adrenals for many reasons. If anything is wrong with your adrenals which can relate to kidney function, that can lower your ability to clear lactic acid from your system.

It's a stretch - or you could just have adrenal fatigue/exhaustion. And if your fasting cortisol comes back below 10, be a little concerned. Nevermind what the lab range says. Get the cortisol checked at 8:00 am preferably. No later than 9am.

[Faethe]

Originally Posted by strayling

The thing about high strength liquid is that even that won't provide all the physical cues you get from smoking an analog, so you have to relearn what your body is telling you. You'll get a nicotine buzz, sure, but your body won't protest and say "enough" by making you immediately feel queasy and "smoked out". It's hard to describe, but take it easy on the high strength and you'll soon know to recognise how you feel when you've vaped enough.

"strayling"

I got some 36mg and put it in my 510.

Brilliant.

Never doing that again. You could have popped my head with a pin.