Feeling Strange and Major Panic Attacks

[strayling]

Originally Posted by Faethe

I got some 36mg and put it in my 510.

Brilliant.

Never doing that again. You could have popped my head with a pin.

Yeah, the Dura is an e-cig version of a muscle car IMO. High performance, but it needs careful handling and it's a gas guzzler. A Pilot is more like a Japanese hatchback: lower performance, but it's easy to drive and sips gas.

[jbbishop]

2,3,5,6-tetramethyl pyrazine
2,3,5-trimethyl pyrazine
2,6-dimethyl pyrazine
2-acetyl pyrazine
2-methyl butyric acid
Terpineol
ethyl maltol
2-acetyl pyridine
gamma-octalactone

All of these are widely used in the creation and/or manufacturing of fragrance and/or flavor concentrates of all types.

Most are considered non-toxic, others may be considered harmful if inhaled as a respiratory irritant and/or the toxicology is not fully investigated.

Most flavor additives tested are classified as safe when they enter the human body through the ingestion of food and not through inhalation.

JC's ingredient list does not go into any details where it lists "natural and artificial flavors."

In an unregulated industry, one adulterant I would be very concerned about here, given China's track record, is the substitution of ethylene glycol for propylene glycol or glycerin.

Diethylene glycol is illegally used as counterfeit glycerin in some nations and sold internationally as a component of cough syrup, toothpaste, and mouthwash.

See: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/wo.../06poison.html

Diethylene Glycol: Inhalation of diethylene glycol vapors is unlikely due to its low vapor pressure. However, if misted or handled at elevated temperatures, high concentrations of diethylene glycol can produce drowsiness, headache, dizziness, and nausea. Ingestion of diethylene glycol can result in behavioral change, drowsiness, kidney and liver failure, and coma. The oral toxicity of diethylene glycol is greater in humans than in laboratory animals. The estimated single lethal dose-oral-human is 1.0 ml/kg.

[strayling]

Originally Posted by jbbishop

Most are considered non-toxic, others may be considered harmful if inhaled as a respiratory irritant and/or the toxicology is not fully investigated.

Respiratory irritant covers a multitude of sins. One person's respiratory irritant could be another's throat hit.

[Monkeylurv]

Originally Posted by jbbishop

2,3,5,6-tetramethyl

In an unregulated industry, one adulterant I would be very concerned about here, given China's track record, is the substitution of ethylene glycol for propylene glycol or glycerin.

Diethylene glycol is illegally used as counterfeit glycerin in some nations and sold internationally as a component of cough syrup, toothpaste, and mouthwash.

See: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/wo.../06poison.html

Diethylene Glycol: Inhalation of diethylene glycol vapors is unlikely due to its low vapor pressure. However, if misted or handled at elevated temperatures, high concentrations of diethylene glycol can produce drowsiness, headache, dizziness, and nausea. Ingestion of diethylene glycol can result in behavioral change, drowsiness, kidney and liver failure, and coma. The oral toxicity of diethylene glycol is greater in humans than in laboratory animals. The estimated single lethal dose-oral-human is 1.0 ml/kg.

I had read about the Diethylene today. Didn't want to post for fear of sounding like an alarmist. You just never can be sure what american made products may have a chinese counterfeit ingredient in it. So even if something's american made, we really can't trust it 100% unless we know where every ingredient came from. Makes you want to go back to the pioneer days & live off your own land.

[JustPuffin]

I read your post and asked my wife to answer.
Just Puffin

Dear JB Bishop
Sounds that you have a bunch of problems going. Panick attacks, meds, fibroM. Are you sure that is what you have? Main symptoms are muscle aches, tiredness, not mental symptoms. Drs diagnose fibromyalgia by testing a number of trigger points on the body. If you don't have a diagnosis, don't try to self diagnose. Just as other good people told you - see your DR and get to the bottom of it.
Sounds like you had panic attacks before and you are going the medical route for treatment. Some meds don't go together with nicotine that affects the brain.
If you suspect there is a build up of lactic acid, check out foods that contain it and cut them down. The main culprits are coffee, cola type soft drinks are a complete no-no. Alcohol is on the list as well and we know you do wine, coolers and rum. These are the worst offenders followed by meat, beans, sugar.
You need to clean out your diet big way, and this is besides going to the Dr. Most of them discount the diet and bad diet kills slowly just like cigs.
Maybe it is a good thing that all this came to the surface so that you can start dealing with these problems with open eyes, not just saying I'll take a valium and it will go away. Good thinking about straightening your metabolism, changing your food choices is the best way to do it.
When you read that a movie start started doing yoga, eating vegetarian food and drinking green tea, that most often means that they are trying to get rid of lactic acid and straighten out their metabolism to slim down and deal with their problems without meds.
Diana Drexler, the Herbal Lady
P.S. I am a non-smoker but I am thirilled that my husband has been on a e-cig for over 2 months now and his life is changing, and so is mine. I support him and e-cigs big time.

[Monkeylurv]

Originally Posted by strayling

The thing about high strength liquid is that even that won't provide all the physical cues you get from smoking an analog, so you have to relearn what your body is telling you. You'll get a nicotine buzz, sure, but your body won't protest and say "enough" by making you immediately feel queasy and "smoked out". It's hard to describe, but take it easy on the high strength and you'll soon know to recognise how you feel when you've vaped enough.

"strayling"

I have a hard time with the nicotine overdose reasoning. Isn't it true that only 1/3 of the nicotine from vaping is actually absorbed? If so, it would take alot of vaping to get an overdose of nicotine. Even with 36mg & if they used 2 or 3ml of ejuice. That would be equivalent to 21-36 mg nic day - if the 1/3 rule were correct. About 26 - 45 analogs a day (2 or 3 ml). But most people don't use that much ejuice.

[jbbishop]

Thanks for your suggestions. Yes, well I do have a number of issues. The Fibro was diagnosed by a rather expensive Physiatrist that I consulted for the purpose of obtaining a qualified diagnosis by a recognized diagnostician. Doctors who do not specialize in Physiatry or Rheumatology are not generally recognized as being qualified to diagnose this condition. Fibromyalgia is a multifaceted and complex medical problem with panic disorder often being one of the major psychiatric symptoms. Additionally, it is probably true that I have some form of a non-specific connective tissue disorder among other orthopedic problems, and I really need to be consulting with a Rheumatologist on this.

That was my thought too, that some of these flavoring ingredients were at least part of what gave TW its good throat hit. People swear by TW for having the best throat hit regardless of the nicotine level.

[jbbishop]

With a new day comes a fresh perspective. Trying to get my morning nicotine fix I realize that one of the reasons this experience is not as satisfying to me is that I am not in fact getting as much nicotine as I need and I can't satiate the craving well with this 18mg solution using a super mini. I'm reminded of the constant disappointment and dissatisfaction that I always got whenever I was stuck with a pack of light cigarettes. No matter how many I smoked I never felt like I was getting my nicotine fix. With a regular cigarette, I can often just take a few drags and I'm fine. So the truth is that I've never been able to smoke light cigarettes and the last couple of years I've been smoking unfiltered (yuck). Thus the argument that one can just vape more doesn't seem to hold up any better than the idea that one can just smoke more light cigarettes. One big improvement for me will probably be the 24mg solution. I'll order some JC original this week and hope it tastes more like a cigarette than the Tennessee Cured.

[TropicalBob]

I have the same problem getting sufficient nicotine from e-smoking. Even using 36mg liquid. But one point in this interesting discussion needs clarification:

Isn't it true that only 1/3 of the nicotine from vaping is actually absorbed?

The New Zealand studies of e-smoking show that 98.9% of the inhaled nicotine from e-smoking is absorbed. That's an amazing percentage. But the same doctor says that on a per-puff basis, we get only one-fifth the nicotine of a regular cigarette inhalation (using 16mg liquid). So we have to do five puffs to equal one cigarette inhalation.

It's a lot of e-smoking, which is why so many report non-stop use of the e-cig. And, used that way, e-smoking does not deliver the 7-second kick following that first inhalation from a tobacco cigarette. We are all eagerly awaiting tests showing nicotine blood levels, so we can compare e-smoking to cigarettes, snus and other forms of tobacco use.

[jbbishop]

So where can you buy tobacco flavored 36mg. VG? It appears you need to make your own. There's JC with their varieties of 24mg. VG, 15m. and 30ml. for $10 and $20 respectively. There's Eastmall with 100 ml. unflavored 36mg. VG for $50 and Jaaxx is selling 15ml. and 30ml. of the unflavored 36mg. VG for $10 and $20 respectively. It is interesting that on his site Jaaxx states that the higher nicotine content does deliver more "hit" and flavor.

It was posted that all the other suppliers measure nicotine content as mgs./ml. but that JC is measured as mgs./1.2ml. Nothing seems more likely than that they are buying the unflavored PG and VG preparations and mixing in their own custom flavorings. They do appear to at least make their own tobacco flavors.