How Confident Are We That These Are Actually Safe?

[surbitonPete]

To put things in perspective..... just compare the long list of chemicals and compounds in cigarette smoke and then compare it to the list of chemicals you are inhaling from vaping and ask yourself which seems the least dangerous .

[TropicalBob]

Johnny, if you look at my "join date" you'll see it's January 2008 -- 15 months ago. I began e-smoking Jan. 3, 2008, and joined this forum. I've used an e-pipe, several e-cigars and many e-cigarettes since I began. Nothing has fallen off. I've had extensive medical tests during my time on e-cigs. All were fine. I had a recent blood test done to see if I was concentrating lactic acid from so much PG. Nope. Blood was normal.

Understand that any results for me are skewed by the fact that I'm a major nicotine addict. I usually am using more than one source of nicotine at the same time. I love snus and almost always have one in my mouth. I'm addicted to Stonewall dissolvable tobacco bits and pop one in immediately upon awakening. I smoke a pipe full of latakia tobacco blend four times a day. I e-smoke constantly, a Janty Kissbox.

I will never be able to single out for item for blame or credit. I quit a 50-year, 30-a-day cigarette habit on July 17, 2007, and haven't inhaled smoke since. At first, I was anxious and had mad cravings. That's when I returned to pipes I had bought long ago while in college. I learned of e-smoking that December and ordered the pipe that began my journey down this road.

No more smoker's cough. Great medical reports. I still have cravings, however, and miss tobacco cigarettes. Willpower and massive nicotine infusions get me over them. I love e-smoking and consider it now an essential part of my staying away from cigarettes. The same can be said of snus and dissolvables, however, and those are now coming in the crosshairs of the FDA. If it's all banned, I'm in deep doo-doo.

When I discovered those PG studies, I knew I would vaporize PG as long as I'm alive. I hope I'm given that option.

[JohnnyNobs]

I can't deny I feel loads better after just 9 days off real cigs ! Never could have done it with the vape.

[Nuck]

If you decide to go with vaping there are ways to reduce the risks. Here are a few ideas:

-Get unflavored nicotine VG or PG from a source you trust the most (I recently ordered VG unflavored from Jaaxx to try an American source)

-Cut your liquid with only USP grade VG and PG

-Use distilled water or the purest alcohol you can find to cut the VG if required.

-Limit flavors to natural flavors (more expensive and WILL limit your options)

-Avoid using cartridges as that filler material is guaranteed to be toxic. (I understand not everyone can drip ALL the time, but I'd recommend dripping over carts when possible)

Any other ideas?

[leaford]

Originally Posted by dEFinitionofEPIC

"Chronic exposure: Lactic acidosis, stupor, and seizures have been reported following chronic ingestion.
Aggravation of Pre-existing conditions: Kidney disorders "

This seems to be getting overlooked even though this is probably some of the more current information around on pg. As vapers we are chronic users so I am extremely leery about how safe pg actually is.

Dude, chronic ingestion is ingesting LARGE quantities over SHORT periods of time, the exact opposite of what we do. "Serious toxicity will occur only at extremely high intakes over a relatively short period of time that result in plasma concentrations of over 4 g/L.[8]"

The reason for those effects is that the person has consumed more PG than the body can deal with. PG breaks cown into pyruvic acid and lactic acid, which the body normally produces and excretes during metabolism. So, small doses, like ours, are metabolized and excreted, but big doses all at once overload the system, causing harm.

[dEFinitionofEPIC]

Originally Posted by leaford

Dude, chronic ingestion is ingesting LARGE quantities over SHORT periods of time, the exact opposite of what we do. "Serious toxicity will occur only at extremely high intakes over a relatively short period of time that result in plasma concentrations of over 4 g/L.[8]"

The reason for those effects is that the person has consumed more PG than the body can deal with. PG breaks cown into pyruvic acid and lactic acid, which the body normally produces and excretes during metabolism. So, small doses, like ours, are metabolized and excreted, but big doses all at once overload the system, causing harm.

I hear you on this... it all seems logical. For me personally though... Vaping makes me feel a little bit "off" sometimes. I don't know what is causing it. And maybe this is what makes me more prone to believing that there could be something going on with what we're doing that is being currently overlooked. I don't believe I am allergic to PG - I have absolutely no throat irritation after vaping. But I do have times when I just feel spacey and "out there" and I really hate that feeling. Since I'm not an expert in what a build up of lactic acid would cause I'm not sure if that is the issue. I do work out frequently.... maybe I just have too much lactic acid.... There is just not enough information for me to be completely sure... Whatever the case, I never got that feeling from smoking.

[Monkeylurv]

Does VG cause a build up in lactic acid?

I was using PG the past few days, and feeling foggy headed/spaciness effects from it. Initially I had started out with chest tightness when I woke up the 1st morning, which waxed and waned the 2nd day. The fogginess started the 2nd day, and once I cut out the menthol xtals & flavoring the chest symptoms went away.

But 3rd day, fogginess persisted. This is with less & less vaping.

I took some baking soda with water just an hour ago (reduces lactic acid) and the fogginess lifted.

Not to scare anyone, because I think I am prone to this. I had mild lactic acidosis when on metformin due to high glucose. They were somwhat different symptoms so this time I didn't pick up on it. I also have up & down blood sugar (intermittent adrenal insufficiency) because of a benign pituitary tumor & possible adrenal issues. So my kidneys aren't exactly super efficient. I turned to vaping because it was the lesser of 2 evils. Quitting cigarettes are a horror for me. Anologs reduce stress, and my "stress hormone" (cortisol) is sometimes deficient. In the long run, of course I know quitting would be good for my health issues. Now I realize this may not be something healthful for me. So keep in mind to those of you who have symptoms from PG may have pre-existing health issues that they don't realize that make PG (or VG perhaps) bad for them.

[Monkeylurv]

Just wanted to add the baking soda is not a cure for severe lactic acidosis. It has to be infused in that case. Full blown LA is a medical/hospital emergency.

[LittleOralFix]

Originally Posted by JohnnyNobs

one plant may be using crushed up baby fetus' as a filler for all we know.

Oh don't worry, your already getting that in your FDA approved vaccinations!

Trully though, contamination and long term effects are a worry. Without support for the new industry though, no one will be willing to put forth the needed testing and studies the electronic cigarette will go the way of the electric car did.

[jbbishop]

Interesting experience with the baking soda. When it started happening to me I thought about trying baking soda but I did not believe that my problem was with acidosis which by definition would require a lot of acidity in my system needing to be neutralized, so I didn't try it.

I am in perfect agreement with you on how this builds up in your system after a couple of days and lingers for hours even if you vape less and less.

See my latest post here on my experience with these problems and other unusual symptoms/issues:

Feeling Strange and Major Panic Attacks