Fog machines & glycol-based liquids & e-cigg

[$ilver]

I have been getting a bad chest from e-cigg, with a little googling I find that glycol-based liquids are used in the cartrage. This liquid is also used in fog machines on stage and films.

Actors have been complaining for years about health related problems from long exposure to this fog.

Wish I had of checked this out before I started on them.

I hope others read this so they understand what the smoke might do to them.

$ilver

[vafvaf]

yes , the propilen glycol one of main concern of e-cig,
take a look there
Propylene glycol inhaling?

[NerdyCinderella]

Thought it was worth reposting:

Propylene glycol is used:

As a moisturizer in medicines, cosmetics, food, toothpaste, mouth wash, and tobacco products
As a medical and sexual lubricant (A.K.A. "personal lubricant")
As an emulsification agent in angostura and orange bitters
As a solvent for food colors and flavorings
As a humectant food additive, labeled as E number E1520
As a carrier in fragrance oils
As a less-toxic antifreeze
As a solvent used in mixing photographic chemicals, such as film developers
In smoke machines to make artificial smoke for use in firefighters' training and theatrical productions
In electronic cigarettes to make the produced vapor better resemble cigarette smoke
In hand sanitizers, antibacterial lotions, and saline solutions
In cryonics
As a working fluid in hydraulic presses
As a coolant in liquid cooling systems
To regulate humidity in a cigar humidor
As the killing and preserving agent in pitfall traps, usually used to capture ground beetles
To treat livestock ketosis
As the main ingredient in deodorant sticks.
Propylene glycol has similar properties as ethylene glycol (MEG). The industrial norm is to replace ethylene glycol by propylene glycol.


[edit] Safety
Cases of propylene glycol poisoning are related to either inappropriate intravenous use or accidental ingestion by children.[4] The oral toxicity of propylene glycol is very low. In one study, rats were provided with feed containing as much as 5% PG over a period of 104 weeks and they showed no apparent ill effects.[5] Because of its low chronic oral toxicity, propylene glycol is generally recognized as safe (GRAS) for use as a direct food additive.

Serious toxicity will occur only at extremely high intakes over a relatively short period of time that result in plasma concentrations of over 4 g/L.[6] Such levels of ingestion would not be possible when consuming reasonable amounts of a food product or dietary supplements containing at most 1 g/kg propylene glycol.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has determined propylene glycol to be "generally recognized as safe" for use in food, cosmetics, and medicines. Like ethylene glycol, propylene glycol affects the body's chemistry by increasing the amount of acid. Propylene glycol is metabolized into pyruvic acid, which is a normal metabolite in the breakdown of glucose, while ethylene glycol is metabolized into oxalic acid, which is toxic.

However, propylene glycol is not approved for use in cat food. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has determined that propylene glycol in or on cat food has not been shown by adequate scientific data to be safe for use. Use of propylene glycol in or on cat food causes the feed to be adulterated and in violation of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act. 21CFR589.1001

Prolonged contact with propylene glycol is essentially non-irritating to the skin. Undiluted propylene glycol is minimally irritating to the eye, and can produce slight transient conjunctivitis (the eye recovers after the exposure is removed). Exposure to mists may cause eye irritation, as well as upper respiratory tract irritation.[7] Inhalation of the propylene glycol vapors appears to present no significant hazard in ordinary applications. However, limited human experience indicates that inhalation of propylene glycol mists could be irritating to some individuals. Therefore inhalation exposure to mists of these materials should be avoided. Some research has suggested that propylene glycol not be used in applications where inhalation exposure or human eye contact with the spray mists of these materials is likely, such as fogs for theatrical productions or antifreeze solutions for emergency eye wash stations.[8]

Propylene glycol does not cause sensitization and it shows no evidence of being a carcinogen or of being genotoxic.[9][10]

Recent Clinical Journal of Medicine article states two cases of adult men experiencing psychosis from use of propylene glycol used in phenytoin injection USP. Both patients had to be switched to Cerebyx (Fosphenytoin Sodium) in order to avoid propylene glycol co-solvent.

Research has suggested that individuals who cannot tolerate propylene glycol probably experience a special form of irritation, but that they only rarely develop allergic contact dermatitis. Other investigators believe that the incidence of allergic contact dermatitis to propylene glycol may be greater than 2% in patients with eczema.[11]

Patients with vulvodynia and interstitial cystitis may be especially sensitive to propylene glycol. Women struggling with yeast infections may also notice that some OTC creams can cause intense burning.[12]Post menopausal women who require the use of an estrogen cream may notice that brand name creams made with propylene glycol often create extreme, uncomfortable burning along the vulva and perianal area. In these cases, patients can request that a local compounding pharmacy make a "propylene glycol free" cream which is much more tolerable.[citation needed]

Propylene glycol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[TropicalBob]

The point to remember here is that in none of the uses listed above has propylene glycol been purposely inhaled, 20 or more times every day. No long-term studies exist because no one thought this would ever be done. Who on earth would purposely inhale this chemical's vapor? That's not what it's for. And Silver is right about actors and stagehands. See some earlier posts on this. After awhile, the theatrical folks come away from fog gagging and coughing up phlegm. Forget how the substance is used in transdermal applications. We're inhaling it -- and that's never been done.

Silver's point is well taken. And 10% of us are sensitive to effects from PG, from sore throat and muscles to chest congestion and coughing. Ever wonder whose idea it was to use PG and nicotine? And how that person determined this was safe to do? We have no idea.

[NerdyCinderella]

Bob,
But let's not forget this report - I don't have strong feelings either way - just want to include all info that we know of so far.

I don't know if a link to this study has been posted on this board yet but it is certainly relevant to this thread. It implies that PG is considered safe as a vapor carrier in medical applications. Does anyone know if PG is actually used for inhaled medicine in humans. Granted, it's an animal study but it was used in lung transplantation and transplanted lungs are pretty sensitive. Not to mention that if you give a rat anything it gets cancer.

Here is the quote from the abstract:

Here is the link to the abstract:

Preclinical safety evaluation of inhaled cyclosporine in propylene glycol.

[jamie]

I have been getting a bad chest from e-cigg.....
I hope others read this so they understand what the smoke might do to them.

We could understand if you would tell us something about your situation. What exactly has happened to you? How long have you been esmoking?

[$ilver]

Well I gave up smoking about 7 years ago. My wife still smoked and I have been nagging her to give up for a long time.

She discoverd the e-cigg about 2.5 months ago and I thought WOW, I hope its as good as it looks.

My wife has not smoked a "real" cigg since she started on the e-cigg wich is absolutley FAB and she is still on it now.

I started to use the e-cigg about 2 months ago and have noticed a decline in my lungs ability to absorb oxygen (simple things like running up and down stairs now make me breathless again like when I used to smoke real ciggs). Now I have started coughing a lot and my throat is sore and has been this way for over 3 weeks and has got progresivley worse.

After doing some research on the e-cigg I now beleive this is the cause of my new chest problems so its time to kick it the only problem is I am now worried about my wife smoking it as she is still in the process of kicking real tobacco.

On a side note people I smoked for 20 years, gave up for 7 and never felt like a cigg. I thought I would try the e-cigg to see what it was like. It is nowhere near as hard to give up as real tobacco.

$ilver

PS: forgive the spelling I wrote this drunk on home made wine!

[NerdyCinderella]

Good question jamie.

$ilver, that's too bad you react badly to the PG. I wish you and your wife luck in stopping this unhealthy habit.

[Mr.Darcy]

some people do not react well to PG.sounds like you could be one of them mate.

personally ive had no adverse reactions to esmoking at all,and feel much better than when i smoked.

as long as your wife has no symptoms,she should be ok to continue...

of course as you probably know from reading this forum,nobody knows the long term effects of inhaling PG regularly...for me its either do this or smoke...so ive weighed it up,and im gonna do this.

[TropicalBob]

Silver, you must be one of those super-sensitive to propylene glycol. That's a pity, but it is best if you kick e-smoking, since you seem to have correlated your effects with taking up this practice. You might want to try other alternatives for nicotine, which you'll find in another section of this forum.

My own experience is not as bad as yours, but not as merry as Mr. Darcy's. I quit cigarettes on July 17, 2007. At that time, I depended on Stonewall hard snuff and candy (Coffee Nips). Within one week, my smoker's cough disappeared. Completely. Physically, I felt great. Emotionally, I was a wreck.

Four months later, nicotine cravings were driving me insane, almost 24 hours a day. I returned to the pipe that I had first smoked in college. Mornings and evenings, I puffed on the porch. And I ordered some Swedish snus I'd used a year before to stay off cigarettes for 85 days. Snus kept me moderately in control. They have high nicotine content.

I learned of e-smoking last August for a column I write for two magazines, but waited until the New Year to order. I began wth an e-pipe. No good. Ordered an e-cigar. Much better. Then a mini cig. Then a pen style. And the cough returned. I could feel the nicotine in the vapor hit my throat, drying it out. But it wasn't a serious problem. Still, I got no "kick" from inhaling vapor.

I've been e-smoking, using snus, Stonewall hard snuff, Oliver Twist tobacco bits and a pipe for six months now. I cough into a pillow at night, to smother the sound. I've not as healthy as I was before I began e-smoking, but my routine keeps me from returning to 30 cigs a day, a habit of 50 years.

It's my neighbor now that keeps me from buying that first pack in a year. He's a year older than me and lost a lung to disease. He quit smoking after his surgery. A year later, he went back to cigarettes. He comes outside his house to smoke, and, from my front porch, I listen to him cough, and cough, and cough. And I reaffirm that I won't relapse, won't return to the obviously damaging practice of sucking a forest fire of smoke into my lungs.

Yes, I've shown him my e-cig. It hasn't gone past that.