Nicotine Confusion

[jamie]

Originally Posted by toekuttr

these were tests on Pharma's products, and their nicotine content, (hopefully the cartridges available to the general public are much higher in nicotine).

No they aren't higher.... for the prescription Nicotrol inhaler:
An intensive inhalation regimen (80 deep inhalations over 20 minutes) releases on the average 4 mg of the nicotine content of each cartridge of which about 2 mg is systemically absorbed.

Originally Posted by toekuttr

I've just been wondering why with the all the dizziness from excessive huffing and puffing, I can't wait to have a smoke when I'm through e-puffing.

Ciggies have other chemicals to give you a rapid spike in the brain. Ecigs deliver steady nicotine, more like NRT products. You shouldn't get a big rush and spike.

[jamie]

Originally Posted by McSocker

so in a sense we should puff 30 times in order to get a regular cigarette hit am i not wrong?

That inhaler LA study information was regarding the prescription Nicotrol nicotine inhaler, nothing to do with ecigs and esmoking.

If you are talking about the Nicotrol prescription, you'd have to puff at least 60 times, according to their insert.

[jamie]

Originally Posted by TropicalBob

"Adults: The mean lethal dose has been estimated to be 30 to 60 mg.
"Children: The lethal dose is considered to be about 10 mg of nicotine.
"Dog: 9.2 mg."

Some easily understandable specifications on form and dosage method would be helpful. Is your info in regards to the drinking of undiluted full strength liquid nicotine as originally produced by the manufacturer (something none of us can get)?

Regarding inhalation, the prescription insert states that:

The oral lethal dose for nicotine is
- Greater than 5mg/kg in dogs
- Greater than 24mg/kg in rodents

The oral Minimum acute lethal dose for nicotine in adult humans is reported to be 40 to 60 mg, less than 1 mg/kg.

So with dogs, for example, the inhalation dose is a bit greater than 5mg per pound of dog - far different than straight 9.2mg. Not that there are herds of smoking dogs...


The vast majority of readers are not parsing out the fine details of posts. In fact the scarier the posts are, the fewer details are going to be recalled.

[toekuttr]

Jamie: "Ciggies have other chemicals to give you a rapid spike in the brain. Ecigs deliver steady nicotine, more like NRT products. You shouldn't get a big rush and spike."

I guess thats true of Snus, dip, cigars and RYO then too (I havent smoked an OTC cig in a long time). I get a "rush" from all of them. It seems to me that I get no nicotine whatsoever from e-cigs. After reading further about the difficulties Pharma had in making a stable device that actually systemically delivers a (less than) substantial dose of nicotine, I'm wondering if my e-cig delivers any nicotine at all. Of course, this might just be my results, ymmv.

BTW, I quit smoking for seven years and used Nicorette, that particular NRT provides a substantial dose of nicotine that left my head spinning at times (two 4 mg pieces at a time).

[TropicalBob]

Jamie, those are not "scare" figures for their shock value. We have E-Liquid containing known amounts of nicotine that if swallowed in specific amounts can be lethal to children or pets. Nothing was even mentioned about inhaling it.

We cannot get undiluted, full strength nicotine, so that's not even a consideration. But we do purchase nicotine that is 24mg per ml. That's what drew me to the amounts that could be lethal. If drunk, very little liquid is needed to be a fatal dose. We wouldn't do that, of course. But a child or pet might.

Toekuttr: You should feel something from e-smoking. No, the nicotine is not equal to a similar puff from a cigarette. Even at its strongest, the e-liquid produces about half the nicotine in a comparable cigarette puff. But if you e-smoke steadily for, say, 20 minutes, you should feel relaxed and alert. I do. And e-smoking nicotine should reach your lungs, where it transfers to the blood stream and then the brain. That's far faster than mouth absorption of nicotine from cigars or pipes or snus. Those are indeed slow.

If you're getting good vapor, using high-strength nicotine, holding the inhaled vapor for a second or two before exhaling ... you should feel something akin to smoking's pleasure.

[jamie]

Toekuttr, it is very difficult to know and compare nicotine absorption level and speed of affect from one product to another. Yes I agree from what you say that you are meaning a nicotine rush, not the other.

With Pharma products, my understanding is that the nicotine is deliberately limited to promote cessation, not limited due to technical issues.

Chewing multiple pieces of nicotine gum quickly would be like drawing long on multiple ecigs at the same time. You'd probably feel that. Rat does that in his vids, seems like he really feels it.

My nicotine cravings are satisfied with ecigs. If I use high carts/eliquid I can quickly become dizzy from overuse of nicotine (for me personally). Hope you are able to make it work for yourself too!

[TropicalBob]

Toekuttr, go over to SnusOn.com - Snus Forum :: Index, a forum for snus users. Join up. It's easy. Then ask for a recommendation of something that will spin your head like that chick in "The Exorcist." They'll have a few things to say, for sure.

Jamie is right, though, that different products hit the brain in different ways. Big Tobacco has been very good at adding chemicals to make the nicotine hit faster and stronger from cigarettes. Cigars and pipes don't play that game. E-smoking certainly doesn't. But if it's a crash rush you want, order some Wise 6mg snus.

Course, those guys at snuson.com (I often post there) will tell you to put a couple of Nick & Johnny strong portions under your upper lip. Yep, that'll do it. Hope you're not too heavy for the EMT guys to lift onto the stretcher.

[toekuttr]

Tropical Bob: "Yep, that'll do it. Hope you're not too heavy for the EMT guys to lift onto the stretcher."

Lol TB, appreciate the advice. I've been snussing lately and enjoy it quite a bit (on your recommendation and some others...thanks). I get quite a nice hit from snus, good stuff. As a matter of fact I've only had one cig in the last week, and I'm not even trying to quit! And thats coming off a 25 year 30 smoke a day (plus) habit.

TB: "Big Tobacco has been very good at adding chemicals to make the nicotine hit faster and stronger from cigarettes. Cigars and pipes don't play that game."

That and 30 percent paper. I started RYO quite a while back and now cant stand the thought of smoking a pre-made cig anymore. That and an occasional cigar and I'm set. Like I said, I don't really want to quit smoking, just don't want to smoke 30 or more a day anymore. The Snus is certainly helping there, I'd recommend it to anyone tryng to cut down or quit. I also haven't written e-cigs off either, they can only get better from here...............I hope.

[toekuttr]

My bad, thanks for the feedback too Jamie. I hope these e-cigs work out as well cuz this isn't turning out to be a cheap alternative to smoking for sure! The e-cig I have does produce a good amount of vapor, and I've tried two different types of 24 mg fluid and cartridges. I'm just not feeling it like some of you all are. Not to mention the scratchy throat and paranoia about inhaling so much PG.

[TheEmperorOfIceCream]

In my opinion there is no nicotine rush. The rush is brain anoxia from feeding carbon monoxide to the brain. E-smoking will never replicate this and frankly, that rush is the only thing I'm trying to kick.