Have a crazy idea about the cause of all these "common symptoms"

[Monkeylurv]

I've got a new theory about the chest tightness, throat tightness, foggy, spacy
headed symptoms. Yes, I know I had other theories as to my own problems with
PG/VG, but I think this may be a factor. I don't know what part VG played into
it. I didn't give myself a break between PG & VG to the point where I was
starting from scratch (a place of feeling back to normal).

So this morning I woke up & noticed some break up of congestion. I thought
that it sort of felt like when you have the beginnings of a cold, and your
chest feels tight because the mucus feels like it is trapped in a ball.
Until it starts to loosen up. I never get colds or the flu. I may have other
health problems, but I have I guess what you would say an overactive
immune system. And this seems to be a wax & wane throughout the day kind
of thing for me.

Keep in mind, I have been smoking 100% tobacco, non-additive cigarettes
for the past 8(?) years or so, so no "benefit" of PG keeping my lungs
"dryer".

So my theories are:

Pg is a humectant (dries mucous membranes). A humectant would dissolve/break up mucous?

Perhaps using PG makes anolog smokers mucous slough off at an accelerated rate. A mucous that has built up from years of smoking?
The body can't keep up with that much mucous that fast. It's sloughing off -
& worse - it's pooling at the bottom of the lungs & you may feel like your
suffocating from the overwhelming amt of ick dripping down your lungs
(ok, maybe that's a little dramatic, lol). I know that when you take too many detoxing supplements, it can overwhelm the "system" because your body just can't keep up fast
enough to remove it all.

The fogginess/spaciness - perhaps mucous in the lungs traps viruses,
and bacteria, much like a clot can wall off pathogens. No doubt that
mucous traps toxins from analogs. The initial and even on & off spaciness
while vaping for awhile could be some sort of die-off reaction from all
those toxins/bacterias breaking loose from mucous break down. I know
I've experienced that die-off reaction with immune herbals & blood thinning
supplements. And
also die-off fogginess from cleaning up diet with whole foods. I don't
think whether you quit analogs or not plays into this. When most people
quit just with other cessation products, it takes a while for all that
muck to come up - often months. And alot of people get sick after quitting,
so that would explain the "mucous walling off pathogens" theory. I think it may
just be PG as the accelerant (in a good way). And PG is also claimed
as anti-viral/bacterial? So even further die off action of pathogens in the lung?
Perhaps even the sinuses, since we know it's traveling there.

And in addition, my old acupuncturist diagnosed me as having "dampness",
which is often a mucous like condition in chinese medicine. I definately have
obvious symptoms of over-congestion on a daily basis. I used PG for I think
a few days, and there was one day when I actually could breath better.
That didn't last, but maybe because I stopped using PG, the breakdown
of mucus came to a halt & just made it sit & worsen.(??)


I had some other crazy thoughts about connecting symptoms others have
complained of - like queasiness, tightness in the throat & neck - all
can be contributed to a change in breathing patterns from having problems
breathing from this reaction. Sort of like pursing your lips & trying
to exhale as fast as you can. You may salivate, feel fullness in your
neck, and your throat, esophogus, and chest may even burn - sort of like
when you are hyperventilating. I know the burn can be attributed to
irration from the flavors, menthol & nicotine too, so that shouldn't
be eliminated as a cause.

Sorry if this sounds crazy. I am tired from not falling asleep till 4am
& generally not getting enough sleep through this one week period of
vaping (because I couldn't breath!) and my brain is racing. Good thing
is I have my best thoughts when I'm exhausted. My tired brain might
not put all the pieces together to discount this. I know I've heard
the detoxing stuff in other threads, but mostly detoxing from analogs
at a faster than normal rate - which doesn't make sense to most people,
and not looking as PG as the quickening of it all.

I took some mucinex & I'm feeling better already...but I'm not going to
write it off as coincidence yet.

Still not vaping, but hoping if my theory is right, with a lot of mucinex,
expectorant, and fluids, I may be able to vape, and not only that - with
PG and not VG. I'll update on how I feel.

Ok, hitting the submit new thread button, and hoping I'm not making a
complete idiot of myself.

[Monkeylurv]

I also found evidence of PG as a mucous reducing agent, though it lists it as an "other" agent:

If you google Propylene glycol mucous breakdown you'll see the word doc version

Mucous Controlling Drugs; Surfactants

And also, briefly read something about diseases of excess mucous (copd, cystic fibrosis and smoking) and read quickly something about testing high viscosity mucous in CF patients to check for pathogens before treating the mucous with an agent.

So maybe not so crazy after all....

ETA: And perhaps part of the reason PG is called a lung irritant is because of being overburdened by breakdown of mucus?

[taz3cat]

One of the side effects of quiting smoking is "smokers flu".

[cosican]

I tried my hardest to read your entire post, I swear I tried.
Then as I am working my way thru your experience I stopped and asked,
My God, "it is just not worth it, for you" that is!!
I promise, everyone has a different experience w/ everything
food, alcohol, cigarettes, vaping, no ones chemistry is the same
Some people get lung cancer from smoking and some do not
I am one that has gotten pretty ill from cigarettes and I will pay, along with my family, for the rest of my life, No matter how much longer I have

So, with all the awfulness you have been thru and you think that by taking a pill, will make it all better, you may be kidding yourself,

I for one, wish it does work and you can go on and vape and vape
I will pray for you to feel better

[Monkeylurv]

I tried my hardest to read your entire post, I swear I tried.
Then as I am working my way thru your experience I stopped and asked,
My God, "it is just not worth it, for you" that is!!
I promise, everyone has a different experience w/ everything
food, alcohol, cigarettes, vaping, no ones chemistry is the same
Some people get lung cancer from smoking and some do not
I am one that has gotten pretty ill from cigarettes and I will pay, along with my family, for the rest of my life, No matter how much longer I have

So, with all the awfulness you have been thru and you think that by taking a pill, will make it all better, you may be kidding yourself,

I for one, wish it does work and you can go on and vape and vape
I will pray for you to feel better

Well, good for you that you tried to read it , and obviously you either don't vape, or don't have any problems with vaping, otherwise you would have gave a shat.

This isn't just for me, it's for the numerous other people who have had symptoms, and thrown up their hands & given up vaping & went back to analogs before trying to understand the symptoms.

And yes it's worth it. Are you suggesting that analogs are the better solution?

And yup, a little pill did work. In the past 4 hours, I have been able to breath, and the congestion is breaking up. Sometimes persistance pays off.

[cosican]

Well, good for you that you tried to read it , and obviously you either don't vape, or don't have any problems with vaping, otherwise you would have gave a shat.

This isn't just for me, it's for the numerous other people who have had symptoms, and thrown up their hands & given up vaping & went back to analogs before trying to understand the symptoms.

And yes it's worth it. Are you suggesting that analogs are the better solution?

And yup, a little pill did work. In the past 4 hours, I have been able to breath, and the congestion is breaking up. Sometimes persistance pays off.

Please I do not want to be rude nor to sound rude
I do Vape and have for 6 months,
I know all about persistence, cos I persisted to smoke analogs for 30yrs and now I am going to die from it.
I am not suggesting that one should ever go back to analogs EVER
however, if Vaping is creating such a major problem for anyone, then MAYBE JUst Maybe, they should not do it. Just because it has been a wonderful vehicle for me to get off of analogs, ( cos even when I was told I have emphysima, by a doc, I didn't stop smoking) one would think that would have been a good time to stop, but I just was not ready
Then I found vaping, NOW if vaping were getting me sick and all the other awful stuff some go thru, then there could be other alternatives

Thats what I am saying, and again you do not know me, only by my comments, But I am NOT proud of how persistent I was or am,
and maybe, it aint always that good of a thing
good luck

[dEFinitionofEPIC]

I admire your determination.... My body doesn't agree with vaping either.... I don't know what it is.... but I'm not going to worry about it. I just had to give it up....It just is what it is. At least I have snus.

[Monkeylurv]

Please I do not want to be rude nor to sound rude
I do Vape and have for 6 months,
I know all about persistence, cos I persisted to smoke analogs for 30yrs and now I am going to die from it.
I am not suggesting that one should ever go back to analogs EVER
however, if Vaping is creating such a major problem for anyone, then MAYBE JUst Maybe, they should not do it. Just because it has been a wonderful vehicle for me to get off of analogs, ( cos even when I was told I have emphysima, by a doc, I didn't stop smoking) one would think that would have been a good time to stop, but I just was not ready
Then I found vaping, NOW if vaping were getting me sick and all the other awful stuff some go thru, then there could be other alternatives

Thats what I am saying, and again you do not know me, only by my comments, But I am NOT proud of how persistent I was or am,
and maybe, it aint always that good of a thing
good luck

Sorry Cosican for jumping down your throat. I'm tired and a little snappy today. And yes, it's easy to misinterpret tone. I do understand what you are saying. I will know when to stop persisting. I know my body pretty well. Right now I "sound like" I have one mother of a cold. I can feel fluid in my eustacian tubes & have the head symptoms too. All in the span of hours. I know it's brought on by this. I know it's some kind of detox. I never get colds. In fact, the last one was 2004. Honest to G-d.

I've done the quit with the patch. I gained 40 lbs. I'm still trying to lose 30 lbs. of that. Extra weight for me is not healthy either considering I have other health issues like glucose problems/cortisol & insulin resistance. And since I'm a woman, I won't be doing snus, chewing tobacco, etc. Forget about cold turkey. I tried...so many times. I'm sure you know how that is.

Def: I'm sorry it didn't work out. Snus is better than analogs!

[Monkeylurv]

I know all about persistence, cos I persisted to smoke analogs for 30yrs and now I am going to die from it.

That totally flew over my head. (((big hugs)))
Cosican, look into alternative medicine. There are things that can break down fibrous scar tissue such as enzymes - nattokinase, streptokinase, wobenzym-n. My lungs were feeling pretty "clean" after doing nattokinase for awhile (until this). I saw proof of it's ability when it broke up old scar tissue on my skin.

I have also been smoking 30 years - since I was 12.

[katink]

Dr. Jim Loi probably agrees with you - he made (a) post(s) a long time ago that he thought PG was speeding up the clearing of the lungs. A lot out of the rest of your theory sounds pretty good (to me at least) also.